Show me Ladybird in 10 years, then I'll decide if it's a promising browser/dev team.
The Ladybird browser project
281–290 of 293 posts
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What would be the alternative in your opinion? Force Apple to allow alternative rendering engines, but only the ones with People already mistake Blink-only APIs like Web USB, Web Bluetooth, Web MIDI, etc. for web standards. The market is already dangerously close to where it was 20 years ago, where a vast number of web developers treat the most popular rendering engine as if it’s synonymous with the web. Handing mo…
The main issue with the ie monopoly was that it was an absolute trash browser, and MS wouldn't update it. Chrome is actually good and gets updates regularly. It would be nice if there were more alternatives, but I can't really expect anyone to spend the resources necessary. I don't think crippling chrome for some kind of sense of "fairness" is a productive solution.
> Chrome is actually good
I'd like to take issue with this statement...its spyware, and its atrocious to modify. You can't slim down a chrome browser, and it can force you to do whatever it wants to...
It's actually really, really bad...
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What would be the alternative in your opinion? Force Apple to allow alternative rendering engines, but only the ones with People already mistake Blink-only APIs like Web USB, Web Bluetooth, Web MIDI, etc. for web standards. The market is already dangerously close to where it was 20 years ago, where a vast number of web developers treat the most popular rendering engine as if it’s synonymous with the web. Handing mo…
Blink isn’t dangerous, Chrome is. You can have a privacy focused Blink browser.
This is far worse than the "you can just re-skin safari" on iOS nonsense. Blink is just another tool to force cash cow $$updates$$ onto users they didn't want or need.
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
This project reminds me of the approach at Xerox PARC in the 1970s. Alan Kay wrote [1]: (At PARC we avoided) putting any externally controlled system, in- house or out, on one's critical path. ... Thus, virtually all the PARC hardware ... and software ... were completely built inhouse by these few dozen researchers. This sounds disastrous, (because) in programming there is a widespread first order theory that one sho…
When would you (or anyone else) say would it be the best to consider doing everything by yourself from scratch? For example, I want to build a little arm server. I'm realistically going to use linux server or similar as I don't want to make my own OS. But if I'm undertaking something on a microcontroller - there's definitely a point where bare metal starts winning. How do you find that?
I would say: when the existing offerings completely prevent you from doing what you want to do, or require ugly workarounds that are not consistent with your goals, or when future changes in those dependencies might compel you to do extra work just to keep your own system running.
One more reason to start from scratch: to get the functionality you want from an existing offering, you would also have to include a lot of other stuff you don't need, resulting in unnecessary complexity and resource consumption.
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What would be the alternative in your opinion? Force Apple to allow alternative rendering engines, but only the ones with People already mistake Blink-only APIs like Web USB, Web Bluetooth, Web MIDI, etc. for web standards. The market is already dangerously close to where it was 20 years ago, where a vast number of web developers treat the most popular rendering engine as if it’s synonymous with the web. Handing mo…
How is that a law? That's just playing sides.
The rule is clearly based upon the ability to influence the market that the players have, which is exactly what is appropriate for an act to improve the state of the market. The rule is not based upon the identity of the players - nor is it just a proxy for that - so it’s not “playing sides”.
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
I haven't, but I have used a Linux system recently, and the experience is far better than a Mac. Even the regulators can see that Apple doesn't care about battery life and performance so much as it cares about the billions it extracts from Google for the search engine deal. Allowing better browsers means that fewer people will be stuck on Apple's inferior browser, and Google will pay correspondingly less to access th…
Is that really true? I’ve tried a number of laptops with Linux and the sleep and power management always still seemed terrible. What do you have? I borrowed a Lenovo x something, and a Dell. Does it matter which brand because of drivers and firmware etc?
I use Chromebook laptops. Good touch screen for productivity, good power management, and good application support. I remote into beefier machines for computationally intensive tasks if I'm not at my desk. On desktop workstations, I use Debian.
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
> then Jakt, their own novel programming language, because neither C++ nor Rust is what makes him perfectly happy. TBH Jakt defaults to reference counting, which makes it compete more with Swift and Go rather than C/C++/Rust.
Wait what. Doesn't go have a proper garbage collector or do I need to get reeducated?
Yes, it does have a garbage collection, I wasn't trying to imply it uses reference counting.
(Though to be fair reference counting can be considered a rather rudimentary way of doing garbage collection.)
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#288> 2023-08-13: New sponsor: ohne-makler.net
> 2023-06-28: Welcoming Shopify as a Ladybird sponsor
Hmm, no new sponsor since august 2023. Not a good sign. I cheer for them to succeed though!
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't forget WebKit. It leads to project such as https://surf.suckless.org
WebKit is established and controlled by the richest company of the world. Most websites make sure they work on it because hardware (exclusively) running it are widespread. Why should someone interested in new players care? Anyone knowing about Servo and Ladybird has most likely heard of it anyway. (agreed, it is a credible alternative to Blink's dominance)
For me it is like:
WebKit -> Chrome
Bun -> Node/Deno
It is good to have competitions in Ecmascript landscape, even though it is currently a duopoly, but with introduction of AWS LLRT, and QuickJS, maybe small player can even have a say so in this. It would be good the big corp comply to the Ecmascript and Web API standard.
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#290Great to see some competition still alive in browser engine development. See also Servo (previously part of Mozilla) https://servo.org/ - that and Ladybird are still very underdeveloped compared to every day browsers. It's a huge shame that there are no nightly builds of ladybird to try out but I assume that's because they just don't want the bug reports (if everything doesn't work it's pointless getting random bugs…
Ladybird packages are in AUR: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/ladybird-git, FreshPorts: https://www.freshports.org/www/ladybird and HaikuPorts: https://depot.haiku-os.org/ladybird