Live data from Hacker News

EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

electronicsweekly.com

281–290 of 318 posts

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#281
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it better (though harder) to have a good environment for building things than to just write protectionist rules?

You write as if that had ever been tried. Everybody has protectionist rules. Some have a little less of them than others and they make a big show of it, but acting as if that show was equivalent to absence of protectionism is like celebrating self-imposed ignorance.

> acting as if that show was equivalent to absence of protectionism is like celebrating self-imposed ignorance

How is it like celebrating that?

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#282
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Better to compare corporate revenue which is typically 5% or less of market cap for FAANG. I wouldn’t even bother with that much. You’re comparing international corporations’ reported revenue with one measure of one country’s general economy. I know a lot of us here are from countries that are either really really big or really really rich or both, but most countries are not really really big or really really rich.…

Reported revenue is pretty reliable. Profits not so much. Revenue for a company and GDP for a country are at least broadly comparable.

> Revenue for a company and GDP for a country are at least broadly comparable.

It’s really not. One is a figure that a CPA (or whatever your country’s equivalent is) signs off on, reports, and is stored in or flowed through the reporting organization’s cash accounts and the other is a statistic represented by a figure that belongs to no organized entity whatsoever.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#283
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the problem with the joke is that it doesn't just make fun of her, it also uses the fact that she is a woman and mother to make that joke. This plays into sexism and misogyny by implying that both of these things made her unfit for office by default. Note how the "sanitized" version using fingers instead of children doesn't really have any oomph to it - the sexism is not just window dressing, it's what makes the…

> problem with the joke [..] denying that it's sexist or misogynist Opinions differ on this. There are women who find the joke funny and who don't think it's sexist, and FWIW my wife is one of them. > VdL is a terrible politician At least we agree on that :) > I strongly oppose her value system Does she have a value system? "it’s hard to imagine a more telling example of the EU’s complete lack of transparency, disreg…

> There are women who find the joke funny and who don't think it's sexist, and FWIW my wife is one of them.

Women can be misogynist. What is your point? We live in a culture still filled with everyday misogyny and sexism (and racism and other forms of bigotry). Misogyny or sexism isn't some innate character trait like a gene deficiency or something you get from exposure to gamma rays. It's something you do and behavior is specifically influenced by the culture around you.

There are still comedians "the ol' ball and chain" routines and how they hate their wife, basically, and there are still women and men who laugh at it (usually for different reasons).

There's a well-known phenomenon where women in positions of power will actively sabotage women under their authority and "kick the ladder down", often to avoid risking their position by being seen as "another woman" rather than "not like the other women". Even the "girl boss" trope liberals seem to enjoy so much is usually based on superficiality and suppressing womanhood. It's very much about "carving out a space" for some women who do the part and try to fit in with the men without challenging the need to fit in with the men in the first place.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by citing more reasons to dislike VdL when I literally already told you I strongly dislike her. My disdain for her goes all the way back to when she was the figurehead for Internet censorship (i.e. DNS and IP blacklisting) and tried to justify the extension to government power with "fighting CSAM" and implying anyone opposing her project was a pedophile.

When your joke only works because she is a woman and mother, it's extremely likely that your joke is sexist or misogynist because it relies on sexist or misogynist subtext to work. "She has more children than working fighter jets" only works because she is a woman and a mother. You could make that joke about a man but it would have very different subtext, i.e. a man having a lot of children implies being an irresponsible womanizer: you could have made that joke about Berlusconi for example to build on his reputation for promiscuity and irresponsibility. It would be a very different joke.

> Does she have a value system?

Yes. She's a "liberal conservative". I realize this sounds nonsensical in the more widely used American sense of those words but it's a thing. I think the US equivalent would be something akin to neocons, expanding state authority while simultaneously reducing social services and deregulating markets. She luckily hasn't been very successful or coherent in practice, though.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, OP makes 6000 euros a month which really is not nothing .

It is huge, but still peanuts considering cost of living and prices for housing. Many people just gave up to the dream of real estate ownership. Rent till the death. With 6000 monthly how many years they need to save money for down payment for small apartment? Buying a house is not an option at all for working people.

I don't think that's true. America's home ownership hovers around 65% - in Norway it's 80%; Swedeon 65%; Denmark 59%; Iceland 73%. If anything, a higher percentage of Nordic citizens own houses than Americans.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#285
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the problem with the joke is that it doesn't just make fun of her, it also uses the fact that she is a woman and mother to make that joke. This plays into sexism and misogyny by implying that both of these things made her unfit for office by default. Note how the "sanitized" version using fingers instead of children doesn't really have any oomph to it - the sexism is not just window dressing, it's what makes the…

The fact this needs to be explained in such detail and then the OP still doesn't get it is baffling, but thank you for taking the trouble.

Thanks. I'm okay with taking the downvotes for comments like this. There's a reactionary political bent on HN and you get more karma from participating in it than pointing it out. It's all fun and games until someone points out we're not rational actors in a vacuum.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market share is the percentage of the market, up to 100%. The market might grow due to the different measures adopted but percentage wise it will always be limited to the whole being 100%, split between however many players. Everyone's share increasing means the market going above 100%. What OP means is that it's a mathematical impossibility for everyone's market share to increase. It's a zero sum game, for any p…

I think that what the GP is saying is that they could each be correct, individually, but not all collectively.

> they could each be correct, individually

In that case "They could all be right that their market share might be higher". Because they never operate individually, in isolation. Two people can predict opposite outcomes that could be correct for a coin flip but only one is correct.

More on the point, I think they all invest in the same strategy not because they know they'll win but because they know without it they'll lose. Even so it's guaranteed that some of them will lose.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#287

All the big blocks: EU, US, South Korea, Taiwan, and China assume that their subsidy policies will expand their market share. Obviously they cannot all be right. The only that I think is given that will expand its global market share is China. Paradoxically because of the US sanctions and the fact that it relies so much on imports presently.

Yes, but most of them could be right. Given that Taiwan has cornered the market for so long, now that other countries are at least trying you could see a shift like this hypothetical market share change:

Taiwan 80% -> 50%

EU 1% -> 10%

US 1% -> 10%

South Korea 9% -> 15%

China 9% -> 15%

And if 4/5 of them ended up "being right" would indicate that subsidy policies are effective, right?

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said that we're uncompetitive solely because of environmental and labor laws, but those factors make such a significant difference that any other factors become irrelevant. We could have all the cheap capital in the world but it would still be cheaper to manufacture in China, Taiwan or other parts of Asia where people work 50,60+ hour weeks for lower pay and no benefits or vacation. > Making sure specific env…

> We could have all the cheap capital in the world but it would still be cheaper to manufacture in China, Taiwan or other parts of Asia where people work 50,60+ hour weeks for lower pay and no benefits or vacation. What about the US? If 75% of Intel's fabbing is done in the US, that should show us something. An EU-based company that sent 25% of its fabbing off to China would also be much better than protectionist law…

What are you talking about? I don't know where they currently stand but Intel used to produce the vast majority of their chips in Asia.

US government had to introduce very similar incentives and decided to just hand out dozens of billions of dollars to get them to move production back home, which is arguably worse than what you're criticizing the EU for.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#289
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact this needs to be explained in such detail and then the OP still doesn't get it is baffling, but thank you for taking the trouble.

Thanks. I'm okay with taking the downvotes for comments like this. There's a reactionary political bent on HN and you get more karma from participating in it than pointing it out. It's all fun and games until someone points out we're not rational actors in a vacuum.

> There's a reactionary political bent on HN [..]

There really isn't!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the semiconductor market is mature bordering on stagnant. There's a high-risk/high-reward competition for the leading edge that is currently dominated by TSMC, but there's just not much money to be made from the older nodes that the automotive, aviation and military segments care about. Building out capacity to secure your supply chains is potentially a very sensible strategic decision, but I'll eat my hat…

After, if we assume from Apple sales, everybody got a mobile phone, AI could be what makes it non-stagnant again. Just companies ordering GPUs and servers, plus more and more similar features being shipped to consumer hardware could make a difference. I do not have any data though, just thinking out loud.

I would assume all those companies want cutting edge (higher performance at lower energy cost), not chips that are 5-10 years behind. Those can barely run current android.
Post reply on HN