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Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

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Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#281
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitl... And there is more to this issue than people realise. Apple has had major lawsuits over the years [1] due to kids racking up large credit card bills via in-app purchases. And similar concerns exist for gambling apps. So this explains why they need to show such a large warning because they don't want to be held responsible for actions of a third party. Whi…

This sounds even worse for Apple. If it’s too easy to make an in-app purchase, why don’t they make it harder to complete one by adding password requirement for payments through their App Store? Of course they won’t do that because it hurts /their/ bottom line. Following this logic, letting people complete payments outside of Apples control should absolve Apple of the legal liabilities between payments made between th…

> If it’s too easy to make an in-app purchase, why don’t they make it harder to complete one by adding password requirement for payments through their App Store?

They do. Passwords are required for every purchase, they just give the user the option to either disable this or to use biometrics by default instead, which is considered a password analogue in the security chain of Apple.

But if you don’t have biometrics setup then you’re always asked for a password and if you do have it setup then after the first time asking for a password it’ll ask if you want to use biometrics instead going forward.

Even on a new device, if you’ve transferred your settings eland other stuff, it’ll still ask for your password the first time before honoring your transferred setting to use biometrics instead.

> Following this logic, letting people complete payments outside of Apples control should absolve Apple of the legal liabilities between payments made between the user and a third party.

It should absolve them of liabilities, but that doesn’t stop people from trying to sue Apple and being able to point to a warning will increase the changes of getting a summary dismissal.

> If this is not the case, can you sue Apple for unauthorized payments made over Safari?

You can sue Apple for any reason. I can sue you too tomorrow for whatever reason I think warrants a suit.

In fact, it is standing practice for trial lawyers (and they’re welcome to pitch in) to sue any party that remotely can be tied to a cause of action as a co-defendant, especially if they have deeper pockets than the party that would be the most logical primary defendant.

This increases the chances of a pay out and there’s a marginal effort and cost to lump them into the case while you’re at it.

So in an example related to the matter at hand it’s very likely that someone would sue the third party developer and Apple, regardless of their precautions. Because the world’s most valuable and richest company (or second most valuable company, courtesy of MS) is great to have on the other side to take a shot at, if only because they might simply settle because the cost/benefit analysis on their side to litigate it might favor a quick settlement.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See: bin Laden's letter to America doing rounds in the internet in 2023.

False equivalency. Most people like living in America and tons of people want to move there, while only religious fanatics would be okay living in a country built and controlled by Al-qaeda

> Bad entities can point out when other entities behave badly. You don't have to like either of them.

> See: bin Laden's letter to America doing rounds in the internet in 2023.

> False equivalency. Most people like living in America and tons of people want to move there, while only religious fanatics would be okay living in a country built and controlled by Al-qaeda

Without question, the comparison is equivalent. Portraying it as either-or is ignoring the root sentiment of "everyone has faults", regardless of who you think is superior in an example.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#283
post #268

Apple and Google are extracting so much wealth from the people who use and develop smartphone software it is insane. I am continuously shocked at how supportive the HN community is of Apple collecting these tolls.

These platforms were created to be tolled. What should be surprising is that developers willingly submit themselves to be tolled. Of course, the web platform is "worse" since it cannot utilize native capabilities until the mobile OS's support it via the browser, but it's toll free. As a user, that would've been my preference, not native apps.

Surprising, isn't it, that Apple has been dragging their feet on PWA support for 10 years? Meanwhile they get a fat cut of every new smartphone product because "users just prefer mobile apps to mobile web'

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#284
post #108

Apple collects the rent from the apps that exist withn their walled garden. Epic employs behavioural specialists tasked in making their games addictive and coerce user into spending with micro-transactions. I do not want to take a side in this fight.

Tim is fighting the good fight despite his intentions being aligned differently from people generally wanting greater software/hardware freedom. You don't need to take sides.

I also like how he hasn't updated his Twitter profile image in 20 years. He's probably riding his 'rati in sunglasses at his age of 50+ thinking he's still got it. And what if he doesn't? Somebody needed to file this lawsuit sooner than later, and I'm glad he did. Big Sweeney boy is scoring relative high on my list right now.

Now open that can of popcorn and watch two corporations trying to defend their own turd. Apple's new UX/tax on third-party payments is an incredible sucking of the MBA's cock on behalf of whoever implemented that. And watching people here still defend them is even better. Why do people pay a $19.99/mo Netflix subscription when you have real life?

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#285
post #278

Epic says this is about protecting small developers... which, frankly, is BS. Epic charges $100 per game in their store, vs. Apple's $99/yr for access to the store, and the latest tools. This is pretty much a wash, unless you're not regularly releasing games. Epic charges 12% for their game store. For most developers, those earning less than $1M, Apple charges 15%. So again, pretty much a wash. Epic doesn't take a fe…

> Epic charges $100 per game in their store, vs. Apple's $99/yr for access to the store, and the latest tools. Plus having to buy development hardware from Apple, which is a pretty significant cost for small developers. > but one of the benefits Apple gives customers is that you don't give your payment details to everyone, decreasing the odds it gets mishandled. If they think that's worth an extra 15%, they can compe…

Ah, but this isn't about ethics, it's about corporate Darwinism. If a company is making pots of cash, what's it's doing must be right. QED

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#286

I mean I gotta give respect to Apple. They seem to have done the minimal technical compliance with the order. Users can make a purchase for their app outside of the App Store. But at the same time they put in as much friction as they could, including reframing the charge to developer as a lead commission - and the net cost to developer is HIGHER than using Apple. Of course epic is going to challenge the spirit of the…

> I mean I gotta give respect to Apple

Are we pretending this giant abusive corporation is some cool movie gangsta or something? What is to respect here? Some c-suits dodging laws? The cult of apple never fails to surprise me - it's not that special lol.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) They always require your password for in-app purchases unless you disable it. b) People have been conditioned over 15 years to treat all app purchases as being managed by Apple. So they expect refunds, disputes etc to be done in the App Store. This is changing. And so it's completely reasonable to clearly inform users about this. Because we have a long history of IAP being a major addiction vector.

>They always require your password for in-app purchases unless you disable it. No they don’t. Biometric only is the default for all IAP/in app subs. Android is the only one who makes you enter a password to subscribe, because Google is incompetent.

No, password is default.

Biometrics is offered as an alternative after the first time, but it is opt-in.

If you restore or transfer settings then it’ll ask for password first time and then honor biometric preference if that’s what you opted-in for on the other device.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true in the slightest, though. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Steam all take 30% for distribution and hosting, same as Apple. It's not artificially high if it's in line with the rest of the tech industry and if you want to try and claim that it's because of some monopoly, vertical or otherwise, then you have to explain why the other storefronts are also monopolies. It's not a monopoly. Other phones and eco…

> Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Steam all take 30% for distribution and hosting, same as Apple. > It's not a monopoly. I believe you have accurately described a cartel, however.

I believe you're arguing in bad faith. Are you just becoming aware of these companies 30% cuts? Why were you calling Apple a monopoly if you think this is a cartel issue? What evidence do you have of cartel behavior other than that people followed suite in setting rates?

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#290

Epic says this is about protecting small developers... which, frankly, is BS. Epic charges $100 per game in their store, vs. Apple's $99/yr for access to the store, and the latest tools. This is pretty much a wash, unless you're not regularly releasing games. Epic charges 12% for their game store. For most developers, those earning less than $1M, Apple charges 15%. So again, pretty much a wash. Epic doesn't take a fe…

> I'm not so keen on forcing successful businesses to ruin themselves

I don't really have a problem with that if they can't play nicely with others. Businesses come and go. But ultimately companies need some incentive to not fuck over the consumer, and "forcing successful businesses to ruin themselves" strikes me as a better option than fines at this point.

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