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Signs that it's time to leave a company

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Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#281

Post by fooster »

kelnos wrote: post #270
willhslade wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to peek behind the curtain, but it's pretty difficult to hold down 2 jobs when you need to physically be in the office 2 days a week. Which, if my anecdotal evidence in my circle is to be believed, that was definitely happening during the pandemic.

Companies need to give up on this whole "we own your time" thing. Work product should be all that matters. If an employee has two or three jobs, but is able to get their work done with the quality expected of them, that's all that should matter. (Certainly there are exceptions; working for two competitors at the same time is not ok for hopefully obvious reasons.)

Get serious unless the employee is open about what is going on none of that is ok. And if they are open they won’t be employees by multi employers for long.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#282

Post by [deleted] »

bondolo wrote: post #279
temende wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're able to share, I'm curious what you mean by "Apple RTO policy has only gotten stupider"? Isn't it still 3 days in-office (or 4 days for some teams)?

The degree to which it is enforced, managers being required to enforce the policy, and to which compliance is used as a measure in performance reviews have all increased and, as you mention, some teams have gone to 4 days with pressure to exceed the minimum three days. At least one person I've spoken with indicated that their promotion was delayed until they could get their RTO compliance numbers up.

[deleted]

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#283

Post by 29athrowaway »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #277
29athrowaway wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make more granular tasks with clear acceptance criteria. If the developer doesn't understand the task, suggest writing a design document. Build trust so that developers reach out to you as they get blocked. Try to make people explain their approach in clear terms and discourage trial and error.

Yep, agreed. Granular tasks of about a day or two, and just talking about it is easier than more process and paperwork. You should try it!

You mean a humiliation ritual? No, thanks. I am not going to build my career at the expense of the dignity of other people.

Build the skills, the trust and the enthusiasm and leave people work in peace. Nobody likes micromanagement. If people could get a paycheck without ever having such conversations they would prefer that. It's a cost to be minimized, not a reward.

Your only value is how much you empower others compared to you being absent. That is the baseline you are optimizing against. And if everything you do is to chase people to forcibly spoonfeed them you are not achieving that.

> A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves. - Lao Tzu

Right now you are like a first time plant owner that overwaters plants and kills them. Stop micromanaging people.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#284

Post by wolverine876 »

AgentOrange1234 wrote: post #247
wolverine876 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full quote: "... the product teams that are left after pruning should try to keep the most experienced employees, lay off the junior ones, and return managers to individual contributor positions where possible. Experienced employees have been through this before, make better judgement calls under stress, and communicate better." So writes the experienced employee. Adding to the parent comment, experienced employe…

“They don't know that 'back when Eddie was here, we did it this way ...' and they don't care.” Per Chesterton’s Fence, that should scare the hell out of you. :)

Who is Chesterton? Someone that worked here last century?

Seriously, it's a matter of degree and requires judgment. Mature businesses can accumulate many, many fences. Sometimes you need to charge through them - move fast and break things. Sometimes you need to pay more attention.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#285

Post by sibit »

x86x87 wrote: post #239
JohnFen wrote: post #31

For me, the main sign that it's time to leave a company is when I start fantasizing regularly about leaving the company. My gut seems to be wiser than my head on this stuff. Nearly every time that I've moved on, it's turned out to be the right call in hindsight.

+1000 if in the morning I dread leaving the car and walking in the office it's time to go. I shouldn't be excited like a dumbass all the time about the work I do but I should at a minimum not dread going into the office.

I always wondered how many other people did this. On the days I have to go into the office I'll spend 15 to 30 minutes sitting in my car sipping coffee and listening to high BPM music. Lately, I've felt like I need to psych myself into being motivated enough to walk into the building.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#287

Post by mech422 »

soneca wrote: post #126

> ” As an employee, it’s usually best to leave in the first wave of cuts.” That’s only valid if you can very easily find another job with similar salary and better work environment, right? If I am a regular IC that will have to go through a lot of interviews to find a new job it is best to just wait until I am fired (while looking for a new job without leaving the current one).

Personally, I always think its best to be in first wave simply because there's less people looking...

Generally, there's gonna be more then 1 wave of cuts, so the first wave gets first crack at the best openings.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#288

Post by [deleted] »

29athrowaway wrote: post #283
jay_kyburz wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, agreed. Granular tasks of about a day or two, and just talking about it is easier than more process and paperwork. You should try it!

You mean a humiliation ritual? No, thanks. I am not going to build my career at the expense of the dignity of other people. Build the skills, the trust and the enthusiasm and leave people work in peace. Nobody likes micromanagement. If people could get a paycheck without ever having such conversations they would prefer that. It's a cost to be minimized, not a reward. Your only value is how much you empower others com…

[deleted]

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#289

Post by josebama »

opportune wrote: post #13

Definitely feeling this at another FAANG I think there’s something about post-pandemic work in software that just isn’t working. I don’t think it’s just interest rates or a hiring downturn, nor immediate causes like founders leaving (because I see this sickness at most big tech companies these days). Personally, I believe that hybrid work is not going well. Fully remote teams are good, fully onsite teams are good. Wi…

I think hybrid can work too, but it requires proactive transparency. In my workplace, a tech scale-up, we switched to hybrid after the pandemic and IMO it's working like a charm.

Everybody puts in their calendar each day whether they are going to work remotely or in the office. They also put their working hours or availability, they put when they are going to be off etc. Everybody I interact with shows up to meetings, some later than others, but that's no different than when we were onsite. Work is getting done faster than when we were fully onsite, although slower than during the pandemic.

The office is fully prepared for this working arrangement, with many "booths" for having calls, plenty of meeting rooms, all with great videoconferencing equipment, a meeting room booking system integrated with the calendar that "just works". Everybody is available on Slack while working, although IMO Slack is a bit overused and abused.

Now everyone works where they are more comfortable. Many have moved to smaller cities, others to the countryside. There are people that always go to the office, others that never go. There are teams that agree on certain days to go to the office, but AFAIK is not mandated by their managers, they just like to work and hang out together.

All in all, a great working experience, while staying productive. In fact, the workforce has increased about 20% since just before the pandemic, but the company has more than doubled in revenue, and volume of business and it doesn't feel chaotic at all. So I'd say that's the proof that hybrid is working for us.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#290

Post by neilwilson »

opportune wrote: post #13

Definitely feeling this at another FAANG I think there’s something about post-pandemic work in software that just isn’t working. I don’t think it’s just interest rates or a hiring downturn, nor immediate causes like founders leaving (because I see this sickness at most big tech companies these days). Personally, I believe that hybrid work is not going well. Fully remote teams are good, fully onsite teams are good. Wi…

It's pretty simple.

If there is an office, people in the office talk to those in the office and forget there are other people around. You get a similar effect with flexitime, but it is not as pronounced.

For remote to work, everybody has to be hamstrung with the same lack of colocation. Only then do the alternative management techniques necessary to make remote function get the time and attention they require.

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