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Re: www.google.com – The page is blank when accessed

#281

Post by stephenr »

sangnoir wrote: post #270
93po wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much JavaScript is needed to accept my text input and provide auto complete options? Pretty wild we need to worry about browser compatibility to do this

> How much JavaScript is needed to accept my text input and provide auto complete options? If you're talking about Google's homepage, the answer is "a lot". You can check for yourself - go to google.com, select "view source" and compare the amount of Closure-compiled JavaScript against HTML markup.

The important word in the question you quoted is needed.

Google homepage is 2MB. Two fucking megabytes. Without JS, it's 200K.

I can't be the only person who remembers when Google was known for even omitting technically optional html tags on their homepage, to make it load fast - they even documented this as a formal suggestion: https://google.github.io/styleguide/htmlcssguide.html#Option...

Re: www.google.com – The page is blank when accessed

#282

Post by Thorrez »

shadowgovt wrote: post #232
chias wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent comment's point is: if this were affecting a version of Google-branded Chrome with similar market share, do you think we would still be getting "next update in 12 hours"? I remember an internal mantra in Google along the lines of "if you break something in production, roll back first, ask questions about how it happened later, even if you think it's a simple fix". It feels telling that this is not…

If it were Chrome, it'd never have gotten out the door because the developers writing the feature use Chrome. > if you break something in production, roll back first, ask questions about how it happened later, even if you think it's a simple fix I don't know that they have enough information on the breakage to know when to rollback to.

>the developers writing the feature use Chrome.

To write the code? It was only mobile Firefox that was broken. I don't think most developers write code using mobile Chrome.

Re: www.google.com – The page is blank when accessed

#283

Post by cuddlyogre »

stephenr wrote: post #277
sangnoir wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the server-side, parsing the UA string is the best & fastest way to figure out which browser is on the other end or the connection. This can need to happen before you load any JS - this is commonly used to decide which JS bundles to load. When put under the microscope, browser have inconsistent behaviors and occasional regressions from version to version (e.g. performance with sparse arrays)

It's wild to think that everything we've collectively learned as an industry is being forgotten, just 20 years later. - We're on the verge of another browser monopoly, cheered on by developers embracing the single controlling vendor; - We already have sites declaring that they "work best in Chrome" when what they really mean is "we only bothered to test in Chrome". - People are not only using UA sniffing with inevita…

We're also back to table layouts with grid, albeit a lot more usable this time around.

Re: www.google.com – The page is blank when accessed

#284

Post by forward1 »

stonogo wrote: post #258
forward1 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox share declined because the market objectively decided Chrome is a better browser. Framing it as Chrome "picking" on Firefox is just silly. And I say this as a die-hard Firefox user and fan.

You have no evidence to support this assertion. I know this because there is no objective "browser quality" standard. It is as least as likely that Google aggressively advertising it on every single page load of every single web presence gained traction for chrome.

Actually, I do: the fact most people use Chrome and not Firefox.

Re: www.google.com – The page is blank when accessed

#285

Post by forward1 »

sleepybrett wrote: post #276
forward1 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Youtube on firefox has been broken since they started their ad-blocker brigade. I use Youtube in Firefox daily, even in Strict mode with many user.js tweaks, and have never had a problem. > The UI has become sluggish and 'pause-y'. Get a faster computer.

> Get a faster computer. Yeah my m2 max is a total fucking slouch, just barely better than a 486.

If you can't play videos on an M2, that's not a Youtube problem, that's a "you messed your computer up" problem.

Re: www.google.com – The page is blank when accessed

#286

Post by forward1 »

michaelt wrote: post #238
forward1 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fined by whom? On what authority? It's fascinating how people clamor for more government regulation and control at the first sign of trouble, without reasoning about the implications of those things, despite a history replete with examples of power abuse from the same.

Back when competition law used to be enforced, if you used your ~90% market share in one area (such as PC operating systems) to give yourself an unfair advantage in another area (such as web browsers) the government forced you to stop doing that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... . If the laws were still being enforced, a company that has a very large market share in web browsers, and a…

Do you put "accidentally" in quotes to support your baseless accusation? Because you have provided no evidence of any wrongdoing, only biased speculation.

Re: www.google.com – The page is blank when accessed

#287

Post by 93po »

j5155 wrote: post #279
93po wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much JavaScript is needed to accept my text input and provide auto complete options? Pretty wild we need to worry about browser compatibility to do this

Google is an advertising company. I’m sure they’re collecting quite a bit more then just your text input

Of course, that's why there's 1.8MB of compressed JavaScript for a text box and an image. My point being that's it's silly and I'm exasperated with the state of the internet

Re: www.google.com – The page is blank when accessed

#288

Post by hedora »

eviks wrote: post #278
hedora wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the browsers I use across those devices sync settings well. Even if it was 100% firefox, I don't want to trust the cloud, and can't be bothered to set up a mozilla sync server just for this (I don't use bookmarks, and there aren't any other settings I want to sync). Also, as it is, I make 100% of my experience better by switching all the browsers to a search engine that provides better results than google and…

To make an actual "better" argument you have to address the aforementioned limitations

> Then there are also the downsides mentioned above (less convenient, no preview, not portable across search engines), so no, it's not a strict win, but an inferior alternative which is superior only in those cases where you can't setup something better

- less convenient: Addressed by my comment.

- no preview: I do not want preview, so this is a bonus. It's also orthogonal, since if the search bar was configured to preview, it could also display bang results.

- not portable across search engines: It already works on all non-terrible search engines because they standardized the bangs.

Re: www.google.com – The page is blank when accessed

#289

Post by sleepybrett »

forward1 wrote: post #285
sleepybrett wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Get a faster computer. Yeah my m2 max is a total fucking slouch, just barely better than a 486.

If you can't play videos on an M2, that's not a Youtube problem, that's a "you messed your computer up" problem.

Vimeo works fine, nebula works fine, max works fine.. youtube videos play fine, the ui is hitchy/pause-y/janky. It's WIDELY reported that this is a problem with youtube specifically on firefox and ONLY since they went on their adblocker blocking schemes. (even though I subscribe to youtube premium and disable my adblocker on their site). This happens if I have 100 tabs open or if I cold boot my system and start up a new firefox with a single tab.

Swallow your fucking pride and admit that you don't know what you are talking about.

Re: www.google.com – The page is blank when accessed

#290

Post by kedean »

cuddlyogre wrote: post #283
stephenr wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild to think that everything we've collectively learned as an industry is being forgotten, just 20 years later. - We're on the verge of another browser monopoly, cheered on by developers embracing the single controlling vendor; - We already have sites declaring that they "work best in Chrome" when what they really mean is "we only bothered to test in Chrome". - People are not only using UA sniffing with inevita…

We're also back to table layouts with grid, albeit a lot more usable this time around.

I don't recall that there was ever anything inherently wrong with using tables for layout, except that it was a misuse of tables so we were told it wasn't "semantic". Thus you had years of people asking on forums how to emulate tables using a mess of floating divs until flexbox/grid came around. In retrospect, tables are also clearly incompatible with phone screens, but that wasn't really a problem at the time.
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