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Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

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Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#281

Post by sorokod »

sandworm101 wrote: post #272
sorokod wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say that its is normal for complex systems to suffer more faults when brand new can you share the stats that apply to airliners? Also, what makes 737 Max a dynamic product ?

It is dynamic because almost no two aircraft will be identical. Between the innumerable customization options, constant small changes in construction and inspection proceedures mean each aircraft is in some ways a unique product. This is an imporant consideration when, like here, a failure appears to have occured amongst one of the optional/customizable subsystems (emergency exit configs).

Well, that would contribute to your when brand new statement. Isn't this a quality assurance nightmare to the point where one must wonder if innumerable customization options is a desirable attribute?

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#282

Post by djbusby »

_heimdall wrote: post #280
junofan wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason I can’t operate an orbital rocketry program out of my backyard. Dangerous stuff in the sky is dangerous to everybody on the ground, too.

I'm not quite sure the connection here. What does running a rocketry program have to do with whether one chooses to fly on someone else's plane?

Stuff in the air is the connection.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#283

Post by numpad0 »

Animats wrote: post #87
arrakeenrevived wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pictures clearly show that the seat is still there. It also wasn't a window... that's a plug for an unused emergency exit location. Planes have spots in the fuselage where emergency exits can be placed if the aircraft is configured with enough seats where it needs more exits. This one wasn't, so instead of an emergency exit, there's a plug bolted into the spot instead. Would have to guess that there was a defect…

It's not a plug door. It's an outward-opening door, apparently. [1] Usually, those things are plugs, and have to be pulled inward to open them, which is not possible when the cabin is pressurized. But there are B-737 configurations where it's an outward-opening door. For those, when there's a door installed, there's a single solenoid to prevent opening it in flight.[2] Is there some kind of dummy door that's installe…

Prevent manual opening in flight, if that's the actual mechanism. That torque tube still has to be forcefully rotated to open.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#284

Post by extractionmech »

cf1241290841 wrote: post #251
Animats wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a plug door. It's an outward-opening door, apparently. [1] Usually, those things are plugs, and have to be pulled inward to open them, which is not possible when the cabin is pressurized. But there are B-737 configurations where it's an outward-opening door. For those, when there's a door installed, there's a single solenoid to prevent opening it in flight.[2] Is there some kind of dummy door that's installe…

The Turkish airlines crash was even worse. And it happened almost two years later after the FAA was fine with a gentlemen's agreement instead of an airworthiness directive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_981 For anyone that doesnt know, McDonnell Douglas merged with Boeing.

r/merged/lobotomized

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#285

Post by mkoryak »

sccxy wrote: post #252
sandworm101 wrote: post #246

Credit where credit is due. This plane obvisouly suffered a massive rapid decompression. But it didn't crash. All the other engineering and safety systems functioned to absorb and mitigate this damage, getting everyone back on the ground safely. That is saying something. Airliners have survived much much worse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

Sorry, but 2 months old aircraft failure should not get any credit.

Like a tesla

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#286

Post by extractionmech »

nimbius wrote: post #48
Morte42 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man.. if I hadnt seen it I wouldn't have believed it.That is absurd. How the FAA keeps approving this junk from Boeing is even more concerning than how bad Boeing manufacturing has become.

not much choice. Boeing is practically the only US manufacturer of widebody passenger jets and enjoys a privileged position as such. there is literally no other American competition for passenger air. Alternatives include the Chinese Comac 929, Sukhoi SSJ100, or A320 from Airbus. the first two are non-starters as most north american politicians are furiously opposed to the idea of carriers so much as looking at chine…

ignoring various questionable details here, the one main point is correct: Boeing and Airbus are strategic industrial assets of USA vs EU and have deep implications for strategic security for both US and EU and their clients. For example, servicing these machines provides access to sensitive infrastructure all over the planet to these two companies’ employees & “certified” 3rd party consultants. If you are sitting say in UAE, buying Boeing vs AirBus is a political decision as well as a practical decision.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#287

Post by bsdpufferfish »

kibwen wrote: post #170
bsdpufferfish wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to reel in capitalism Ah yes, the aerospace and airline industries are just really overrun with free market ideals.

I hope it's not controversial to point out that agents motivated by profit will, at the limit, optimize for profit at the expense of everything else (including, in this case, safety). Airlines are less regulated today than they were back when Boeing got its start; the other quality of free and markets is that they consolidate into monopolies, at which point the market stops functioning entirely as a useful mechanism…

> optimize for profit

So where are the profits? Boeing hasn't made money since 2018 and I suspect their revenue per employee is very low.

They are "too big to fail", part of the ministry of defense, and a large make-work program.

> they consolidate into monopolies

Indeed there are about 3 aerospace companies setup to server the US government. It regulates everything from how paperwork is stored, to what tests candidate employees must pass, and which parts they can order.

In the commercial sector all of their customer's requirements come from the government.

> Airlines are less regulated today

In what ways?

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#288

Post by stouset »

salawat wrote: post #232
stouset wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you’re going to have to ground all the 737-900ERs (in service since 2007) out there as well, since they use the exact same part. Or maybe, just maybe, this is 1,000x more likely to be a maintenance issue than it is a faulty design. If there were a genuine, ongoing safety issue worth worrying about pilots would stop flying them . People seem to entirely forget that the crew up in the cockpit are humans with an in…

The pilots have nothing to worry about. They're locked onto the cockpit. You'll forgive me if I find your assertion strains credulity.

The cockpit is—as I’m sure you’ll be shocked to learn—actually integrally connected to the rest of the plane.

If the MAX is as likely to fall out of the sky as the armchair experts at HN believe, pilots wouldn’t fly them.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#289

Post by cm2187 »

jacurtis wrote: post #89
Morte42 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man.. if I hadnt seen it I wouldn't have believed it.That is absurd. How the FAA keeps approving this junk from Boeing is even more concerning than how bad Boeing manufacturing has become.

Honestly this might lead to another 737 Max grounding, which will shoot up the cost of airfare. At this point, the 737 Max seems cursed.

But was that door specific to the max? I would assume previous generations of B737 had the exact same door. It seems to me that this is more an indictment of Boeing's manufacturing than a design flaw specific to the max (well, we will see what actually caused it). If that's the case, this would curse all boeing models.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#290

Post by numpad0 »

markdown wrote: post #19
randycupertino wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If it's Boeing, I'm not going." I was on a flight that made and emergency landing once, it was TERRIFYING. The pilot circled once then we went down at a very steep angle. What was even worse was the three days we were stranded in Gander Newfoundland while they fixed the plane and then flew in a new crew. It was basically an refueling/military base and not a real airport, no food or facilities. After that I never fle…

> After that I never flew without my toothbrush, change of clothes and contact solution in my carry on. You used to fly without those things? :O

People go everywhere all the time without a couple of Snickers bars and/or Walkers style shortbreads or equivalents, some wet wipes, a disposable fork, a 3-port power strip, and a bottle of unsweetened beverage.

Unbelievable by my standards, because those items had saved me time and again from my frequent time mismanagements, but not everyone is on an exact same standard.

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