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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#281

Post by edanm »

regularjack wrote: post #252
iddan wrote: post #136

[flagged]

Maybe rockets wouldn't be shot if Israel would not illegally occupy territories. It seems pretty logical to me that when a state starts illegally extending its borders pretty much immediately after its formation, their neighbors will not be happy about it and will fight back. No need to be an antisemite to understand this, it's just common sense.

What are you talking about? Israel was attacked by several armies and conquered land as part of a defensive war, that is a completely legitimate capturing of that land.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#282

Post by ardit33 »

snowpid wrote: post #96
ardit33 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

" I am talking about women/children. " Can you elaborate, what makes especially women special as a victim?

I saw some of the incursion footage. How many of the hamas troops in the October 7 incursion were women? 0, from what I saw in the footage the only women involved were isreali victims getting kidnapped. Mostly of the incursion was done by males clearly in their 20s/30s. Perhaps few 19+, but I didn't see any kids participating in it either.

Sure, there might be some women helping out, but we can say it is mostly men, and 99% of the women killed, and most of the kids under 17 are victims of IDF's indiscriminate bombing, paid by our taxes.

If you want to defend war crimes, keep on going, but I feel sick how some goons in the tech community are justifying the killing by saying a '11 year old' is probably a hamas terrorist.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#283

Post by ido »

angiosperm wrote: post #222
megaman821 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there as an election tomorrow in Israel, do you think the new leader would be against war? Like it or not, Hamas' actions have prompted a response from the Israeli people, a different leader wouldn't change that sentiment.

True, Israeli votes are the only votes that have had, and can have, any material effect there. They have voted for Netanyahu reliably for years, so the present situation, Hamas included, is what they have, collectively, chosen. Hamas has always been Netanyahu's staunchest political ally. If Israeli voters ever choose differently, change might be possible. Until then, things will be reliably more of the same.

Netanyahu has in fact won less than 50% of the votes but due to a technicality managed to assemble a coalition with other parties that amounted to 64 of 120 seats in parliament (similar to Bush Jr. and Trump having won US elections despite winning less than 50% of the votes due to the electoral college). The latest polls show Netanyahu and his government with a less than 30% approval rating, this was hardly a slam dunk victory (and in fact Netanyahu replaced another prime minister who ruled between his terms when he barely won the November 2022 elections).

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#284

Post by wolverine876 »

megaman821 wrote: post #110
PoignardAzur wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To misquote Bryan Cantrill, one should not make the mistake of anthropomorphizing Netanyahu. When a nationalist politician like him is faced with an event like this, long-term international diplomacy considerations barely enter the picture. The violence just comforted him in his previous worldviews, all he saw was that his nationalistic policies were justified and the only viable answer was to be even more of a natio…

If there as an election tomorrow in Israel, do you think the new leader would be against war? Like it or not, Hamas' actions have prompted a response from the Israeli people, a different leader wouldn't change that sentiment.

Isreali-Palestinian history didn't begin on October 7th. The sentiment isn't a creation of that event, though obviously the attack influenced it. The sentiment is also partly a creation of years of right-wing politics and an ineffectual opposition.

It's an issue in many countries, as we (even on HN) throw humanitarianism away, and the study of it, we will of course lose quite a lot. What replaces it?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#285

Post by wahnfrieden »

adhamsalama wrote: post #255
throwaway6734 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nations at war defend themselves by degrading the military might and desire to wage war of the enemy state. I find Israel's actions to be overly callous towards civilian death, but it's important to keep in mind that civilian death was inevitable once the government of Gaza decided to invade Israel and intentionally target civilians.

[flagged]

Israeli military has actively supported those settlers

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/07/west-bank-sett...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#287

Post by edanm »

iddan wrote: post #136

[flagged]

Iddan - I get where you're coming from, and it's a very valid criticism to say that the West in general pays far more attention to Israel than to much worse conflicts.

That said, I don't think this is a valid criticism of HN. There have been plenty of threads about other wars, and there have been very few threads about Israel, actually.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#288

Post by vladgur »

Maken wrote: post #209
noworriesnate wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If the UN was a properly working organization, it would have intervened long ago to force a ceasefire. But we all know that only applies to very poor countries with no economic or political relevance.

A ceasefire without releasing hostages? There are still more than a 100 of hostages being held in Gaza to this day?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#289

Post by kamikazeturtles »

edanm wrote: post #244
rich_sasha wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is good reason to hold Israel to a higher standard. It is by many metrics one of the most sophisticated states in the whole world. It has one of the highest fractions of people with higher education, it is a highly innovative economy. It is the second largest country of origin for NASDAQ stocks - US being the first one - despite being small by numbers at around 10m people. Whereas the Palestinian territ…

I completely agree that Israel should be held (and hold itself) to a higher standard than Hamas. I think one thing Israelis... dislike... is that often Israel is held to higher standards than every other country on Earth , is held to impossible standards. And when it falls short of those standards - it is considered proof that Israel is evil.

I'm critical of Israel's handling of this conflict just as much as I'm critical of Turkey's response to Kurdish separatists. No one is held to impossible standards. Everyone deserves dignity

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#290

Post by whycome »

ido wrote: post #237

Plenty of Palestinians oppose Hamas and want peace and a free Palestinian state according to the '67 borders. These would be the equivalents on the other side.

And some support the war Hamas rages despite the effect on the Palestinian people/civilians. Is that an other other side? This is complex, and we really can't describe this conflict as just having two sides.
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