We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO

#281

Post by willdr » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 7:30 AM UTC

happosai wrote: post #238

ryzvonusef wrote: post #22

> We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam Altman to return to OpenAI as CEO with a new initial board of Bret Taylor (Chair), Larry Summers, and Adam D'Angelo. > We are collaborating to figure out the details. Thank you so much for your patience through this. 1- So what was the point of this whole drama, and why couldn't you have settled like this adults? 2- Now what happens to Microsoft's role in all of thi…

About 3) What is the benefit of learning about this kind of drama minute-by-minute, compared to reading it a few hours later on hacker news or next day on wall street journal? Personally I found twitter very bad for my productivity, a lot of focus destroyed just to know "what is happening" when there was neglible drawbacks of finding about news events a few hours later.

I have muted any mention of Open AI, Altman, Emmet and Satya from my Twitter feed for the past five days. It's a far better experience.

Re: We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO

#282

Post by YetAnotherNick » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 7:31 AM UTC

shubhamjain wrote: post #162

At the end of the day, we still don't know what exactly happened and probably, never will. However, it seems clear there was a rift between Rapid Commercialization (Team Sam) and Upholding the Original Principles (Team Helen/Ilya). I think the tensions were brewing for quite a while, as it's evident from an article written even before GPT-3 [1]. > Over time, it has allowed a fierce competitiveness and mounting pressu…

> it seems clear there was a rift between Rapid Commercialization (Team Sam) and Upholding the Original Principles (Team Helen/Ilya)

Is it? Why was the press release worded like that? And why did Ilya came up with two mysterious reasons of why board fired Sam if he had quite clearly better and more defendable reason if this goes to court. Also Adam is pro commercialization at least looking at public interviews, no?

It's very easy to make the story in brain which involves one character being greedy, but it doesn't seem it is the exact case here.

Re: We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO

#283

Post by dodyg » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 7:32 AM UTC

flylib wrote: post #111

"A source with direct knowledge of the negotiations says that the sole job of this initial board is to vet and appoint a new formal board of up to 9 people that will reset the governance of OpenAl. Microsoft will likely have a seat on that expanded board, as will Altman himself." https://twitter.com/teddyschleifer/status/172721237871736880...

[flagged]

Re: We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO

#284

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 7:32 AM UTC

ryzvonusef wrote: post #22

> We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam Altman to return to OpenAI as CEO with a new initial board of Bret Taylor (Chair), Larry Summers, and Adam D'Angelo. > We are collaborating to figure out the details. Thank you so much for your patience through this. 1- So what was the point of this whole drama, and why couldn't you have settled like this adults? 2- Now what happens to Microsoft's role in all of thi…

> Twitter is still the best place to follow this and get updates

This has been my single strongest takeaway from this saga: Twitter remains the centre of controversy. When shit hit the fan, Sam and Satya and Swisher took to Twitter. Not Threads. Not Bluesy. Twitter. (X.)

Re: We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO

#285

Post by renewiltord » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 7:32 AM UTC

This is a triumph of labor against management in sheep's garb. Workers united were able to force an outcome they desired to preserve an organization they loved while sweeping aside a board that would prefer to destroy it.

Re: We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO

#286

Post by eslaught » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 7:34 AM UTC

shubhamjain wrote: post #162

At the end of the day, we still don't know what exactly happened and probably, never will. However, it seems clear there was a rift between Rapid Commercialization (Team Sam) and Upholding the Original Principles (Team Helen/Ilya). I think the tensions were brewing for quite a while, as it's evident from an article written even before GPT-3 [1]. > Over time, it has allowed a fierce competitiveness and mounting pressu…

Ok, serious question. If you think the threat is real, how are we not already screwed?

OpenAI is one of half a dozen teams [0] actively working on this problem, all funded by large public companies with lots of money and lots of talent. They made unique contributions, sure. But they're not that far ahead. If they stumble, surely one of the others will take the lead. Or maybe they will anyway, because who's to say where the next major innovation will come from?

So what I don't get about these reactions (allegedly from the board, and expressed here) is, if you interpret the threat as a real one, why are you acting like OpenAI has some infallible lead? This is not an excuse to govern OpenAI poorly, but let's be honest: if the company slows down the most likely outcome by far is that they'll cede the lead to someone else.

[0]: To be clear, there are definitely more. Those are just the large and public teams with existing products within some reasonable margin of OpenAI's quality.

Re: We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO

#287

Post by RHSman2 » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 7:34 AM UTC

shubhamjain wrote: post #162

At the end of the day, we still don't know what exactly happened and probably, never will. However, it seems clear there was a rift between Rapid Commercialization (Team Sam) and Upholding the Original Principles (Team Helen/Ilya). I think the tensions were brewing for quite a while, as it's evident from an article written even before GPT-3 [1]. > Over time, it has allowed a fierce competitiveness and mounting pressu…

Money, large amounts, will always win at scale (unfortunately).

Re: We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO

#288

Post by didip » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 7:34 AM UTC

Let’s be real here. At the end of the day, what matters more is commercial success and a big payout.

AGI is still very far away and the fear mongering is nothing but PR stunt.

But the devs need their big payout now. Which explains the mutiny.

The “safety” board of directors drank their own koolaid a bit too much.

Re: We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO

#289

Post by YetAnotherNick » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 7:34 AM UTC

upwardbound wrote: post #88

altpaddle wrote: post #42

I guess the main question is who else will be on the board and to what degree will this new board be committed to the Open AI charter vs being Sam/MSFT allies. I think having Sam return as CEO is a good outcome for OpenAI but hopefully he and Greg stay off the board. It's important that the board be relatively independent and able to fire the CEO if he attempts to deviate from the mission. I was a bit alarmed by the…

> The CEO should not be allowed to try and orchestrate their own board as that would remove all checks against their decisions. Exactly. This is seriously improper and dangerous. It's literally a human-implemented example of what Prof. Stuart Russell calls "the problem of control". This is when a rogue AI (or a rogue Sam Altman) no longer wants to be controlled by its human superior, and takes steps to eliminate the…

Whoever is on the board won't be able to touch Sam with 10 feet pole anyways after this. I like Sam but now he this drama gives him total power and that is bad.

Re: We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO

#290

Post by willdr » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 7:35 AM UTC

nathanasmith wrote: post #99

tomohelix wrote: post #17

So, Ilya is out of the board, but Adam is still on it. I know this will raise some eyebrows but whatever. Still though, this isn't something that will just go away with Sam back. OAI will undergo serious changes now that Sam has shown himself to be irreplaceable. Future will tell but in the long terms, I doubt we will see OAI as one of the megacorps like Facebook or Uber. They lost the trust.

On the contrary, this saga has shown that a huge number of people are extremely passionate about the existence of OpenAI and it's leadership by Altman, much more strongly and in larger numbers than most had suspected. If anything this has solidified the importance of the company and I think people will trust it more that the situation was resolved with the light speed it was.

That's a misreading of the situation. The employees saw their big bag vanishing and suddenly realised they were employed by a non-profit entity that had loftier goals than making a buck, so they rallied to overturn it and they've gotten their way. This is a net negative for anyone not financially invested in OAI.