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macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

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Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#281
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Mac OS Classic sharing lines of code, or not, even relevant to the question?

By definition. If they used the same code, they would be similar.

Yes but the opposite is not true, zero line of code shared does NOT necessarily imply zero or near zero similarity. Which is the case under discussion.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#282
post #273
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely see it in the video. But no my computer (like all Macs) does not have a touch screen. So without the aid of directly comparing my finger and the object being manipulated on the screen, I cannot perceive the difference.

What if you just move your cursor in a circle? You can see each frame where the cursor is in a different position. With persistence of vision you should see twice as many cursors on a 120Hz panel compared to 60Hz. I also feel a noticably larger delay in cursor movements when I when I use a 60Hz monitor or phone.

I'm sorry but I cannot see twice as many cursors when I move the cursor in a circle. I see approximately eight of them when I move the cursor as fast as my finger allows me to, regardless of 120Hz or 60Hz.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#283
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the submission: > Once System Firmware is updated to the macOS Sonoma version, if the display is configured to a refresh rate other than ProMotion, that system will no longer be able to boot into older macOS installs nor Asahi Linux correctly. This includes recovery mode when those systems are set as the default boot OS, and also System Recovery at least until the next subsequent OS upgrade. That can and will ab…

> that system will no longer be able to boot into older macOS installs No, that seems pretty super-user to me. The average user goes forward in versions, not back, and rarely has two at the same time.

> No, that seems pretty super-user to me.

Here's a play-by-play scenario.

1) Grandma is prompted to update to Sonoma, and so she does.

2) But note that the installer does not update the recovery partition.

3) Laptop reboots, and grandma sees an Apple logo for exactly 2 seconds, and then the screen goes black. Manually rebooting results in the same thing, every time.

4) Grandma now tries to roll up her sleeves and see if she can fix it. She googles around, and discovers that the she should be able to get into the Recovery OS and maybe fix things there... but when she tries to do that, same thing: apple logo for 2 seconds and then black screen.

How did I come up with this play-by-play? Well, because today I was said grandma.

Where does this involve the average user going back in versions of their on volition? That's the whole point of why this bug is horrible: you get no say in the matter. You upgrade to Sonoma, and depending on your refresh rate, you can't boot into your OS. Wanna use the Recovery OS? Too bad: that's too old to know to use a functioning refresh rate settings (because the installer left the old Recovery OS version in place), and instead it uses whatever was set in NVRAM (or similar) from when you last configured the refresh rate.

Wasted today using another MacBook to update the Recovery OS via DFU (using Apple Configurator), and now I'm reinstalling Sonoma from that recovery, and praying that this will unbrick my laptop for work tomorrow.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#284
post #51
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is depressing. They clearly have they ability ($$$) to do the required amount of manual QA, but don't. Or there was QA and someone decided that your case still wasn't enough to hold up the release. In my mind, when we pay that ridiculous Apple premium on RAM and storage, we pay for excellent quality in SW/HW. They also need to deliver that quality.

Or they did QA but just happened to miss this issue. Most companies would consider "the upgrade sometimes bricks the device" to be a release-stopping bug, I'm betting Apple is among them.

> Most companies would consider "the upgrade sometimes bricks the device" to be a release-stopping bug

I've run into such horrific bugs during pretty normal use that I don't think this anymore.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#285
post #40

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If it's not documented and you have a problem then you are usually shit out of luck. The early days of butterfly keyboards was hell for a lot of people. I managed to get mine back to them for a full refund 3 days after I got it thank fuck.

I got a full MacBook Pro replacement when my MBP had something wrong causing it to charge extremely slowly - completely on Apple's dime. They first sent me an overnight shipping box to send in my MBP, where they then replaced the top case assembly. After that didn't work they overnighted me a brand new in box MBP. I had to spend 6+ hours on the phone over multiple days with a senior tech support staff to make it happ…

> I didn't pay anything for it

You paid 6+ presumably stressful hours of your time. That sounds like a crazy high price to me that you should be able to bill them for.

I wonder whether they could've done it faster if they were required to reimburse you for the time and nerves you had to spend to get them to fulfill their (assuming you were within warranty) law-mandated responsibility of providing you with a product that works as described.

How did you even get to the point of talking to them on the phone? When I last had a problem (extreme instability up to full crashes when RAM pressure is high, which is apparently a problem with every single ARM Mac out there) they wanted me to come into an authorized store as the first thing.

I eventually caved in and just bought a machine with bigger RAM. My god, I can't imagine spending several hours over several days turning the device off and on, resetting NVRAM and re-installing the system ...

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#286
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are licensed shops that serve as effectively local Apple Store (as they are primary contact with Apple for majority of clientele) and then completely 3rd party stores which do not carry Apple branding.

Authorized resellers aren't your "contact with Apple", you can simply buy genuine apple products there. Authorized repair centers can do repair and have access to genuine parts. That's all it is. Apple Store is a totally different shebang, if those are not owned by Apple it would be a major news story for lots of people. And if they are owned by apple I don't see why their employees can not see bug reports.

> Authorized resellers aren't your "contact with Apple", you can simply buy genuine apple products there. Authorized repair centers can do repair and have access to genuine parts. That's all it is.

The last time I dared to request a troubleshooting for the terrible lockups (sometimes down to the touchpad click not responding directly) that I now believe are caused by swapping (and are present on every ARM Mac I've used), I was offered by the official Apple website to make an appointment at Gravis, an authorized reseller and then perhaps also authorized repair provider.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authorized resellers aren't your "contact with Apple", you can simply buy genuine apple products there. Authorized repair centers can do repair and have access to genuine parts. That's all it is. Apple Store is a totally different shebang, if those are not owned by Apple it would be a major news story for lots of people. And if they are owned by apple I don't see why their employees can not see bug reports.

> Authorized resellers aren't your "contact with Apple", you can simply buy genuine apple products there. Authorized repair centers can do repair and have access to genuine parts. That's all it is. The last time I dared to request a troubleshooting for the terrible lockups (sometimes down to the touchpad click not responding directly) that I now believe are caused by swapping (and are present on every ARM Mac I've us…

Apple does direct you there. But the key is that people there are third parties. They have some arrangement with Apple and access to genuine parts but they are not Apple and they don't put you in touch with anybody at Apple.

But Apple Store I think is owned by Apple and people there actually work at Apple. Also if Apple Store was the same franchise thing as authorized resellers then I don't see why there would be so few Apple Stores around the world.

Also wow. I didn't have this particular touchpad issue with my M1 mac yet. I do have a bunch of gripes with Apple about other issues though. Just a couple days ago noticed notification center was using 100% CPU and draining battery. Only because I wanted to check time in another timezone using world clock widget. Trying to edit the widget and select a different city locked up the entire thing with all the other widgets. Dumpster fire.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#288
post #274
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you done an eye exam recently? With 20/20 vision and no practice you should be able to see input lag up to 1000Hz by dragging any UI element around like the presenter does in this video: https://youtu.be/vOvQCPLkPt4

I do not drag UI elements. I'm still struggling to make my Mac (work notebook) as responsive as my personal i3 notebook. My perception: current Mac is an oversized iPad without touchscreen

As someone who regularly switches between a Windows PC and a Mac on the same display, I know what you mean. It doesn't feel as snappy/responsive, I believe probably linked to how rendering is done in macOS (basically something like a PDF composition). There have been a lot of talk about gaming on Macs, but the truth is that to have any chance, Apple needs to fix this laggy feeling. The same game on the same computer just feels way better in Windows than it does in macOS, it is definitely a software problem...

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#289
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the Apple bootloader and restore stuff scares the shit out of me. The network access requirement, firmware on SSD and hardware lock are always lurking waiting for the most inconvenient time to go wonky when I hose something. Conversely windows, just got a USB stick in the drawer I can boot off.

In the FireWire days, you could firmware boot a Mac into target disk mode and plug it into another mac where it would show up as a disk. How far we’ve fallen.

Yep, macOS is nice but Apple stuff is mostly locked down luxury garbage nowadays, yet they have more fanboys than ever which infuriates me. Previously everything was open, and it was genuinely nice to work on the various parts of a Mac, now I would rather have to fix 10 PCs than deal with a single modern mac...

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to the part confirming your claim? If anything, it's confirming mine that they both are stuck at 60 Hz.

The link says: > As such, on their 120hz devices, requestAnimationFrame is throttled to 60hz, whereas CSS animations run at 120hz. Please let me know if I am misunderstanding, it has been a few years since I've done this type of work.

I just tested this and you are right. Thanks
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