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Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

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Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#281

Post by wilsonnb3 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #217
ethanbond wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the relevance of this. Are you saying that aggressively targeting cheaters is pampering to wannabe pros or that not aggressively targeting them is pampering wannabe pros? Another thing that has changed in FPS land is game modes making cheaters WAY more frustrating. It used to be that you get into a lobby, see someone cheating, and could leave and find a new lobby right away. Now with the extremely…

I'm saying is that it's a problem companies created themselves, and are subjecting customers to increasingly dystopian measures in a futile attempt to manage it. Pro gaming and casual gaming don't mix well. Cheating is a self-solving (or at least self-regulating) problem if you let people freely associate and host games. Cheating is only a big problem in competitive gaming, where there are rewards (status, monetary,…

Several of the assumptions in your post are flawed, which undermines your whole argument.

> Cheating is only a big problem in competitive gaming, where there are rewards (status, monetary, or both) for moving up the global ranking

This is untrue, cheating was until recently a huge problem for team fortress 2 which hasn't been competitive for years.

See also the huge cheating problems in the CoD games from the Xbox 360 era, which was before they were competitive outside of small, grassroots tournaments.

> The addition of match-making further prevents the kind of grouping casual players prefer

Players overwhelmingly do not prefer server browsing. Games have consolidated on the matchmaking model because any game without it is dead on arrival.

The biggest example of a game with a foot still in both worlds is Counterstrike, where the overwhelming use of custom servers is for external matchmaking services with stricter anti cheat than Valves VAC.

> Unfortunately, I think companies figured out that pro gamers are where the money is made, so they're willing to screw the majority of the players to streamline costs and hopefully create more wannabe-pros that can be monetized.

Again this is just not true - the revenue and profit of casual games dwarfs competitive games. Check out a recent financial report from ActiBlizzard and see how much money they make from competitive games like Overwatch and CoD compared to their mobile sub company, King.

Pro circuits and pro game modes are advertising expenses, not revenue or profit centers. Arguably the biggest pro game in the world, Counterstrike, makes the vast ,majority of it's money selling lootboxes and taking a cut on skin trades.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#282

Post by [deleted] »

solardev wrote: post #140
serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

OK, maybe I'm biased here as a PC gamer who frequently uses a controller... but why not just allow both? Some games like Gears of War on Xbox already do this. Others, like Fortnite, offer crossplay and just show a symbol over each player's head. Do mouse and keyboard players have an advantage? Sure. So do players with bigger TVs or Series X graphics or less worn controllers or the Elite controller. Big deal? The PC e…

[deleted]

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#283

Post by kaibee »

kibwen wrote: post #161
orf wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s always fun to see that viewpoint run face-first into real life, as it inevitably and immediately devolves into a cesspool of cheating that either drives everyone off the platform or loops back around to being forced to run anti-cheat software you don’t have power over. These vapid comments about freedom And abstract notions of ownership always strike me as naively and comically libertarian

"Won't someone please think of the children^W cheaters?" This argument is preposterous. If you want to solve multiplayer game cheating, there's no solution other than to make your game fully server-based and stream a video feed to the client. Meanwhile, these draconian anti-multiplayer-cheating methods obliterate single-player-game freedoms by removing all potential for modding, which is the only good thing about the…

> "Won't someone please think of the children^W cheaters?" This argument is preposterous. If you want to solve multiplayer game cheating, there's no solution other than to make your game fully server-based and stream a video feed to the client."

This isn't really enough these days. There's proof-of-concept videos on YouTube of people developing ML-Image Recognition aimbots that move a physical mouse.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#285

Post by dyingkneepad »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #232
snarfy wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm competitive. I simply won't play FPS that have aim assist in multiplayer. If a controller has a disadvantage to KBM, they should learn to use KBM, not give them a built-in aimbot.

Or maybe they could just ban KBM play.

That is kinda what they're attempting to do with their move here.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#286

Post by lxgr »

crazygringo wrote: post #253
serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

I disagree completely -- there's no significant money to be made here. Microsoft wouldn't even bother if this were a financial play, it's so small. Not that many people use non-Xbox controllers to begin with, and whatever licensing fees Microsoft will charge manufacturers may very well be offset by the costs of running the licensing program itself. This seems very clearly to be anti-cheat. Advantages are not "trivial…

> there's no significant money to be made here [...] Not that many people use non-Xbox controllers to begin with, and whatever licensing fees Microsoft will charge manufacturers may very well be offset by the costs of running the licensing program itself.

Ah yes, original (or licensed) game console accessories, the well known non-profit operation...

Yes, console prices are sometimes subsidized, but never accessories, quite the opposite. Or do you seriously believe that it costs MS or Sony $70 and more to manufacture a wireless gamepad?

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#287

Post by karaterobot »

phone8675309 wrote: post #218
jasonjayr wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe don't ban them? Maybe mark them and force the player to explain the situation to their peers? Bans revoke products paid for, but marking suspects forces them to explain to their peers the situation and lets them make the decision.

There have been several games that match suspected cheaters with other suspected cheaters, and I've always thought that was a pretty good solution.

That doesn't resolve the false positives, it just takes people who've been marked by an algorithm and puts them somewhere they're guaranteed not to have fun playing the game they bought.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#289

Post by 2close4comfort »

serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

WHQL - Gamer Edition! taxing hardware with cost increases passed on to the lucky consumers. Gee thanks Microsoft.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#290

Post by ToucanLoucan »

JohnBooty wrote: post #246
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there's a difference, an XBox sucks. Besides that? Not particularly. The input devices are worse, the underlying hardware and software is worse, the fact it only supports a measly 60hz at 4K^1 blows. I used to love XBoxes and have many great memories of my original and 360, but ever since the XBox One it's just been a bloated, slow PC with a bad interface front for Windows. I own one because occasionally I like…

I'm not gonna disagree with your reasons for liking or disliking a gaming console. Gaming consoles are for fun, your preferences don't have to make logical sense. But... but ever since the XBox One it's just been a bloated, slow PC with a bad interface front for Windows. Huh? The original XBox and 360 were also slow (relative to higher-end PCs of their day) systems running Windows variants.

Yes but they didn't feel slow. The One does and so do it's iterations. They all run slow, download slow, and just feel sluggish to use. Even the Switch which is INCREDIBLY limited on the hardware front feels snappy and responsive.

Every console has always had worse hardware compared to a PC, that's a given, but almost all of them don't feel that way because the developers know the platform and can squeeze every last cycle out of the hardware. The One has NEVER felt nice to use. Ever.

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