Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off • Hacker News Board

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#281

Post by happytiger » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

Dah00n wrote: post #222

sickcodebruh wrote: post #209

For some context, it’s important to understand the degree to which Bandcamp’s success and ubiquity with independent music is built on a people-first, anti-corporate culture. Bandcamp is an obsession for a very large and engaged segment of the independent music world. A good friend, a professional musician, told me “I feel like I’m watching my childhood home burn to the ground.” This is far from a unique sentiment. Pe…

Sounds good, but since it is not EU based, my band and I will have to stay put. Good luck though. Competition is a good thing.

Bandcamp wants EU based either they came from Oakland, CA. So what’s the objection?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#282

Post by SeanLuke » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:28 PM UTC

rendall wrote: post #23

danjc wrote: post #5

Unions have existed by various names for all of time but I have a hard time sympathizing except in the case of blue collar/low income workers.

This is how unions weaken. Divide first, by implying that some class of workers are not worthy of collective bargaining agreements. Then conquer, because unions aren't powerful.

> Then conquer, because unions aren't powerful.

Come to Italy some time.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#283

Post by gizmo » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:30 PM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #249

gizmo wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firing everybody and only re-hiring the meek employees is a classic union-busting tactic and plainly unlawful.

i think the argument the parent is making is songtradr didn't fire anyone the only hired who they preferred.

Does a judge want to set the precedent that union busting is legal when you do it with extra steps?

1) Fire everybody

2) Create new corporate entity

3) Rehire the meek and compliant

4) Sell corporate entity back to original company

Judges tend to get very cranky when they have to deal with shenanigans like these.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#284

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:32 PM UTC

throwboatyface wrote: post #262

InTheArena wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions in America are much more militant and much less cooperative, much more likely to go to zero-sum negotiations than in Europe. They also are far far far more corrupt than unions in Europe.

This is just saying "union bad" in more words. The recent WGA strike and Teamsters strike at UPS both got terrific results for workers. The UAW and SAG-AFTRA are also very effectively striking right now.

[deleted]

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#285

Post by haneefmubarak » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:34 PM UTC

derrida wrote: post #204

ivalm wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US median income, even disposable income after all the medical/housing costs, is higher than all of the large EU countries (France, Germany, etc). So if anyone has bullshit pay, it’s the Europeans.

How come everyone is in debt then? What is median debt?

Median household net worth (assets - liabilities, not including NPV of future cash flows from personal labor income) in the US is $192,900 according to the latest Fed data: https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#286

Post by bloopernova » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

sickcodebruh wrote: post #245

throwaway290 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was building up since the original team sold to Epic. Can't trust after that. What is the difference of your service with eg. Deezer? Someone in another thread mentioned it offers lossless DRM-free downloads these days.

I can't speak about Deezer specifically since I'm not familiar with their product, only their name. There's a little FAQ up at https://ampwall.com/faq-alpha that might answer many of your questions, I'd prefer not to go full Pitch Mode on HN. But in short: artist-owned and operated -- I am the first user and have skin in the game that goes beyond money, incorporated as a Public Benefit Company, with a distinct vision…

I wish you every success with this, I'm really glad there are people that still care.

In case anyone else was curious about Public Benefit Corporations, or PBCs, I found this comparing them with a B Corp: https://socapglobal.com/2021/04/whats-the-difference-between...

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#287

Post by ilyt » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

So Epic basically bought bandcamp, shot it thru the head and sold the corpse to Songtradr. Shame

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#288

Post by ilyt » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

siva7 wrote: post #18

Seems more like the layoffs were about laying off the union members. Some CEOs perceive unions as cancer that has to be stopped from metastasis. In countries with stronger union protection laws this move would have been illegal

If by "some" you mean "every single one", sure.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#289

Post by ilyt » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

qwery wrote: post #153

> Songtradr had no access to union membership information and we executed our employment offer process with full-consideration of all legal requirements I know this won't be a popular thing to say, but I'd like to take a moment to thank Songtradr for consulting their lawyers and full-considering all legal requirements. I believe them when they say they didn't legally acquire the union's documentation on membership. B…

Why you're thanking corporation for doing their due dilligence before squashing union movement in company ?

It's disgusting

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#290

Post by unethical_ban » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

billy99k wrote: post #277

unethical_ban wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're doing downvoted because you put words into the parent comments now that weren't there. They didn't say unions are useless. They said American unions are weak. The implications are very different.

"They didn't say unions are useless" If something is weak (like the unions), will it ever be useful?

It's faulty logic.

"Unions of type T are weak, therefore all Unions are without purpose" is not logical.

A poor implementation of a system is not a case against the system, particularly when other countries have proper implementations of the system.

(BTW I'm discussing things with the opinions given by others. I certainly don't think unions, even in the US, are particularly weak or useless. The president had to take action to prevent a particularly useful and impactful railworkers' strike last year. Teachers in Virginia got good pay raises after a strike several years ago. Writers and actors are fighting for their long-term survival against large studios.)