Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap • Hacker News Board

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#281

Post by idontwantthis » Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 3:33 AM UTC

rapsey wrote: post #278

idontwantthis wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never, but I’m trying to understand what the experience would be like. If you charge at home then you are looking at like 2 days to fully charge at 240v. What I’m wondering is if these ranges are necessary or realistic for electric cars even if the storage tech is there. Maybe 4-500 miles is the max anyone would want regardless of how long charging could theoretically take if you were connected directly to a nuclear…

But why would you need to fully charge? What matters is charging enough in a day to cover your daily needs.

OK but then why have the battery capacity? It isn’t free in dollars or grams. Probably more likely we get smaller and smaller batteries and the range stays roughly constant.

Will be amazing for trucks and aircraft though. Truck stations on highways could potentially each have massive hookups or even their own solar and battery plants.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#282

Post by rapsey » Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 3:37 AM UTC

idontwantthis wrote: post #281

rapsey wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why would you need to fully charge? What matters is charging enough in a day to cover your daily needs.

OK but then why have the battery capacity? It isn’t free in dollars or grams. Probably more likely we get smaller and smaller batteries and the range stays roughly constant. Will be amazing for trucks and aircraft though. Truck stations on highways could potentially each have massive hookups or even their own solar and battery plants.

Because it covers trips long enough to reasonably do in a day. And if on average you are charging more than using, the battery will be at near full capacity most of the time. It eliminates range anxiety.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#283

Post by ace2358 » Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 3:43 AM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #273

idontwantthis wrote: post #271

If a Model 3 LR is 75kwh, and this is roughly 3x the range, and that takes roughly 20 minutes to go 10-80% at a supercharger then can anyone tell me what kind of hardware would be required to charge a 225kwh battery in the same time? Is it remotely feasible to build at least 100,000 of those chargers all over the world? Sounds like each one would need a gigantic capacitor or flywheel on site.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-v4-supercharger-speed-cable-... Supposedly, V4 chargers are still currently capped at 250kW output (same as current L3 chargers), but are capable of upwards of 615 amps once more cars are capable of charging at 800 volts. I don't know what building 100,000 of them will take, but it'll be a lot of metal for sure.

I wonder how much metal is tied up in gas tanks, gas trucks etc…

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#284

Post by goda90 » Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 3:50 AM UTC

cglace wrote: post #272

idontwantthis wrote: post #271

If a Model 3 LR is 75kwh, and this is roughly 3x the range, and that takes roughly 20 minutes to go 10-80% at a supercharger then can anyone tell me what kind of hardware would be required to charge a 225kwh battery in the same time? Is it remotely feasible to build at least 100,000 of those chargers all over the world? Sounds like each one would need a gigantic capacitor or flywheel on site.

How often are you driving 1800 miles in a day.

Truly autonomous cars could drive you cross country while you work, eat, sleep and consume entertainment all within the car. With those kinds of efficiencies it's pretty attractive regardless, but very short charging breaks would be even more attractive.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#285

Post by MBCook » Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 3:55 AM UTC

…why?

I get range anxiety is a thing. But no one needs that kind of range in a car.

Why not make it 400mi/650km and save a ton of weight? The battery here gives double the range of an Accord. Who needs that?

Less battery is less weight. That’s better for tires, roads, charge times, brakes, accidents, acceleration, drivability, cost, and probably more.

250mi is plenty. For most even less. But there’s a psychological factor, I get that. Outside something like a truck that’s going to get a very low mi/kwh when towing no one needs that much battery.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#286

Post by darknavi » Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 3:56 AM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #273

idontwantthis wrote: post #271

If a Model 3 LR is 75kwh, and this is roughly 3x the range, and that takes roughly 20 minutes to go 10-80% at a supercharger then can anyone tell me what kind of hardware would be required to charge a 225kwh battery in the same time? Is it remotely feasible to build at least 100,000 of those chargers all over the world? Sounds like each one would need a gigantic capacitor or flywheel on site.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-v4-supercharger-speed-cable-... Supposedly, V4 chargers are still currently capped at 250kW output (same as current L3 chargers), but are capable of upwards of 615 amps once more cars are capable of charging at 800 volts. I don't know what building 100,000 of them will take, but it'll be a lot of metal for sure.

Cybertruck was confirmed to use 800V packs so they'll light up the network for use soon hopefully.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#287

Post by recursive » Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 3:58 AM UTC

tjmc wrote: post #280

I wish articles like this would standardise on W/kg or W/L. Range is meaningless when you don't know the pack size.

It's still quite meaningful. It's the distance you could allegedly drive without recharging.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#288

Post by tooltalk » Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 3:59 AM UTC

corbezzoli wrote: post #265

malablaster wrote: post #264

932 miles is suspiciously specific.

Range = this new battery’s capacity / some car’s average “MPG” This produced an “exact” number out of consumption averages. The public doesn’t yet know what “250 kWh” means.

That's just very misleading though: the 980 miles battery in a light, compact EV, eg, M3, isn't going to deliver the same range in a pick-up truck, eg, the Hummer EV.

It's just an open invitation for abuse (and has already been abused by battery makers like CATL who recently announced a new improved LFP with 4C charging and 750 miles range??).

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#289

Post by ta8645 » Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 3:59 AM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #285

…why? I get range anxiety is a thing. But no one needs that kind of range in a car. Why not make it 400mi/650km and save a ton of weight? The battery here gives double the range of an Accord. Who needs that? Less battery is less weight. That’s better for tires, roads, charge times, brakes, accidents, acceleration, drivability, cost, and probably more. 250mi is plenty. For most even less. But there’s a psychological f…

Likely because it alleviates the need to always be charging, whenever you're not on the road. Not having to make special arrangements for a charging station at work. Or for example, sharing a charging station at home instead of requiring your own, because you only need to charge every other day, etc.

It would make owning an EV less tedious.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#290

Post by srustagi » Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 4:00 AM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #285

…why? I get range anxiety is a thing. But no one needs that kind of range in a car. Why not make it 400mi/650km and save a ton of weight? The battery here gives double the range of an Accord. Who needs that? Less battery is less weight. That’s better for tires, roads, charge times, brakes, accidents, acceleration, drivability, cost, and probably more. 250mi is plenty. For most even less. But there’s a psychological f…

towing + cold most likely?