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HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

hashicorp.com

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Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#281
post #136
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For support contracts, services, consulting, and customisation.

That doesn't generate enough revenue to sustain development.

Here's Hashicorp's financials: https://ir.hashicorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/...

They made $102M of revenue from support in the latest quarter. Their cost for providing the support was $15M, and their entire R&D costs were $54M. (Professional services was a tiny amount of revenue in comparison, and at break-even.)

Clearly support and services could easily generate enough revenue to sustain development. What it can't currently sustain is their $91M / quarter of sales and marketing.

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want "free"loaders using your software why is it "free" in the first place?

By any chance are you familiar with Little Free Library ( https://littlefreelibrary.org/ ), those public boxes for people to take or leave books? How would you feel if someone took ALL the books, repeatedly, and then sold them? Would you just shrug and say "well that's totally fine, why is it free in the first place?" This behavior is antisocial, and completely destroys the offering/concept for everyone. I have a boo…

Given the lengths you say you went to to actively stop and sabotage licenced (by you) usage I have to question why you even picked an open source license in the first place?

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want "free"loaders using your software why is it "free" in the first place?

By any chance are you familiar with Little Free Library ( https://littlefreelibrary.org/ ), those public boxes for people to take or leave books? How would you feel if someone took ALL the books, repeatedly, and then sold them? Would you just shrug and say "well that's totally fine, why is it free in the first place?" This behavior is antisocial, and completely destroys the offering/concept for everyone. I have a boo…

> How would you feel if someone took ALL the books, repeatedly, and then sold them?

Books are rivalrous and excludable goods. If you take all the books, then others can't enjoy them. Open source software is non-rivalrous and (mostly) non-excludable. This is the thing that makes free software possible. And it's also the thing that makes it unlike the book example.

> decided to use one of my core open source libraries (which they haven't contributed to in any way) for a critical component of their commercial product, which also overlaps with my product's functionality in some ways.

This is really terrible, and I'm sorry to hear that it happened to you. But as far as I'm aware this has always been the whole point of "permissive" licenses. Licenses like MIT and (Berkeley) BSD subsidize the private sector with work done by the universities. The core idea, at least compared to GPL licenses, is to allow businesses to profit off of donated work. So while I sympathize with you, it seems like you deliberately chose a license that allowed and encouraged exactly the behavior you saw.

> And before someone says "why not AGPL?", it is because many companies don't touch AGPL software with a ten-foot pole.

This is presumably because businesses don't want to use software that creates in them obligations to give back. But you do want them to give back, or at least you don't want them to take too much. So I feel like there's a fundamental tension here. You're trying to make your project appealing to businesses by telling them they can take it for free and give nothing back. But you're also saying that behavior is "antisocial" and "completely destroys the offering/concept for everyone."

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source licenses are the legal system. They're licenses. Changing your license isn't "switching to the legal system."

I must not be making myself clear. Projects are free to choose permissive licenses like BSD. Companies are then free to use the code however they like and not contribute back in any way. Projects are then free to be annoyed by this because they hoped that companies would contribute time and/or resouces out their own good will. Finally, projects are free to move to "business source" licenses because good will didn't w…

Here is some software we made. Use it however and for whatever you like.

Wait not like that.

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#285
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most TF providers are not maintained by Hashicorp, but by the company whose product the provider integrates into. Development of the provider is an investment the company makes to lower CAC.

Sure, but the providers for some of the biggest platforms are maintained by HashiCorp[1] - like the AWS, Azure, GCP, and Kubernetes providers[2], and it appears the Pulumi AWS provider (for example) _does_ use the Terraform AWS provider, even to this day[3]. 1. https://developer.hashicorp.com/terraform/registry/providers... - "official" providers are maintained by HashiCorp 2. https://registry.terraform.io/browse/pro…

Imo this is notable as historically hashicorp has beaten even AWS to (cloud formation, and, thus, cdk) support for their newly launched services.

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spacelift co-founder here - please don’t panic. We will make sure you can continue to use Spacelift :)

You, humanitec, and env0 should start a community fork of pre-BSL Terraform and donate it to the CNCF.

[dead]

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#287
post #273

I fully support hashicorp’s prerogative to be paid for their hard work, but I am also glad I did not enter the ecosystem. Looks like it stays k8s + pulumi + ansible for me. I do think they’ll be able to benefit from this though — serious businesses that derive value from their offerings should be comfortable paying more/something for the value they’re receiving.

Pulumi uses Terraform providers under the hood. You're in their ecosystem.

I'm using their ecosystem indirectly, not locked into it, with an option to leave whenever I want, with a superior computation model (in the case of Pulumi), that's the point.

If Hashicorp changes all the licenses of the providers they maintained, then that's fine -- I have no right to demand free work from them.

I would be worrying a lot more if all my automation was built on Terraform, Consul, and Nomad, though -- and I'm glad I didn't do that.

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#288

All that I get from this is that HashiCorp is no longer an open source company. > However, there are other vendors who take advantage of pure OSS models, and the community work on OSS projects, for their own commercial goals, without providing material contributions back. We don’t believe this is in the spirit of open source. This is 100% in the spirit of open source. If this is a problem for them, why not adopt an o…

Based on multiple previous employers of mine, it seems like software companies start noticeably going downhill about 1.5 years after they go public. Let's check Wikipedia and see how I did: > On 29 November 2021, HashiCorp set terms for its IPO ...I'm starting to think I'm onto something. (I do welcome anecdata that either helps or hurts my hypothesis)

1.5 years?

Their stock was down 60% only 3 short months after IPO.

I think this is just a struggle to turn what was once technical excellence into something that gives money. I haven't followed HashiCorp lately but was once a fan of some of their products. These days it seems things are slower over there. At least that's what it feels at a distance.

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#289
post #281
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't generate enough revenue to sustain development.

Here's Hashicorp's financials: https://ir.hashicorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/... They made $102M of revenue from support in the latest quarter. Their cost for providing the support was $15M, and their entire R&D costs were $54M. (Professional services was a tiny amount of revenue in comparison, and at break-even.) Clearly support and services could easily generate enough revenue to sustain development.…

They need $91M of S&M to get $102M of revenue though, so the $11M net doesn't cover $54M R&D.
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