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Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

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Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#281

Post by deelowe »

AlbertCory wrote: post #278
deelowe wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's splitting hairs a bit. Laws are written fairly broadly all the time and it's left up to the courts to determine the specifics.

Patent claims are also written broadly, deliberately by the lawyers. There's a whole part of every trial where "claim construction" takes place, and I personally helped with many of those briefs when in Google Legal. The briefs never argue "what the inventor intended." They argue about what the claims and the spec says and what those words mean. That can, indeed, leave room for argument, and that's why both sides wri…

Not trying to be rude here, but I highly recommend you do a little more research on the common law system and how it works. At it's core, common law states that laws are interpreted over time and these interpretations become the official law of the land. There is no requirement that every conceivable form of infraction be enumerated within the law itself.

Patents are something else entirely and not relevant to this discussion.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#282

Post by Zetice »

pc86 wrote: post #274
Zetice wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend you have not visited the northeastern part of the US if you think not actively smiling while serving fast food is abnormal. Further it is rude in no part of the world to not be cheerful, and the fact that you require this of people who are paid unlivable wages shows a distinct lack of compassion or empathy. They’ll smile when you pay them what they’re worth.

Nowhere did I say anyone needed to be cheerful, only that ignoring basic social courtesy is rude. Going up the thread a bit, we're talking about "no greeting, no thank you, no smile" - now I can't speak for @coldtea but IMO all it takes to not be rude is one of those things. A single "hello" or "good morning/afternoon/whatever," a single thank you, literally any form of acknowledgement. Nobody is talking about making…

Are you kidding me? The alternative to these people being in “customer service” is to be homeless.

You think these people should choose homelessness because they don’t want to cheerfully work for slave wages?

That’s callous and hateful.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#283

Post by seanmcdirmid »

dragonwriter wrote: post #275
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bernie isn't a Democrat.

He's a three term Senator elected to that body as an Independent that has always caucused with the Democrats (as he did in the House befor that), is currently given by the Senate Democrats the position of Chair of the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee, and was the #2 Democrat in the last two Presidential nominating contests.

Anyone can try and get the Democrat nomination for president, they don't limit it to card carrying Democrats.

Bernie Sanders identifies as a Democratic Socialist. You can, of course, call him whatever you want, but it won't make him identify himself differently.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#284

Post by muttled »

sokoloff wrote: post #244
toomuchtodo wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.actuary.org/sites/default/files/pdf/health/pool_... ("For a risk pool to remain viable, it must be of sufficient size and comprised of a broad cross section of risks.")

There are US states more populous than some European countries. Maybe a city can’t do it, but plenty of states could. It’s just damn expensive to try.

Reading your comment, I had the thought "I wonder if California's done it?" Turns out they've tried it 10 times. I'd imagine there's a lot of money being thrown against the initiative by for-profit insurance companies, which is an industry with a lot of cash to buy laws.

https://stateofreform.com/featured/2023/05/california-seeks-...

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#285

Post by vkou »

geodel wrote: post #261
finite_depth wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm well into my 30s, in the top few percent for income in the US, and live in California (one of the highest tax states), and I happily pay them. I'm alive today because of their benefits, and I'd be the worst kind of hypocrite to pull the ladder up after me. People's objection to social safety nets mostly isn't their desire to keep their money. It's a perception that the people who need those safety nets are lazy b…

> in the top few percent for income in the US, and live in California (one of the highest tax states), and I happily pay them. Well, thats not surprising but at same time not default for most people. Universities have been leaning left since at least 60's and 70's . If all the people who attended university remained influenced by those ideas over the years. Most of the people with higher income and influential positi…

Education is incredibly strongly correlated with not voting republican.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#286

Post by mikrl »

umeshunni wrote: post #236
toomuchtodo wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.8 million voters over the age of 55 die every year in the US. 4 million voters turn 18. We're just arguing time horizon and cohort turn out rates. Bernie was just too early after Reagan, globalization, and deregulation. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/03/01/1-generation... https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generat... https://archive.is/iRyQE https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/…

Except that people also age out of far left ideas. The 18 year old who's like "hell yeah, ownership is theft, raise the taxes" feels differently when they turn 35 and have to pay those taxes.

> feels differently when they turn 35

I’m actually not salty about the taxes I pay (Ontario, Canada) I’m salty that I seem to get sweet FA for them compared to similar rates in Western European countries.

Seems like a problem with governance, not taxes.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#287

Post by mikestew »

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #218
oldjim69 wrote: post #11

Nothing shows the power of unions more than the lengths companies go to fight them. In a Union there is Strength.

[flagged]

Are you going to wait 3 weeks for your deliveries to arrive?

First, you know full well that it won't be three weeks. However, I'm willing to allow a bit of exaggeration to make a point. But let's make the argument reasonable: I have to wait five days for the equivalent of UPS Ground from the other coast (UPS, which I will point is unionized and offers next-day delivery). As a trade-off, drivers aren't pissing in bottles. Are you saying you'd rather drivers piss in bottles rather than wait a few more days for delivery?

But of course all of this is moot: many examples abound of delivery companies capable of delivering things the next day and having a unionized workforce.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#288

Post by thebradbain »

Modified3019 wrote: post #263
CSMastermind wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to stop your local city government from increasing taxes to hire a doctor and provide them with a building and staff in order to provide medical services to locals residents? It seems to me that the problem is that everyone wants a federal solution to healthcare and the United States is generally structured to limit federal power. Fire departments are funded locally generally speaking, it didn't take a federal…

Do you count the influx of homeless as residents? These people absolutely need healthcare, but they are a resource drain that can move in suddenly, unpredictably, and overwhelm a local solution with static resources. Then you get a situation where the wealthy, even (and sometimes especially) the diehard leftists who voted for the situation, turn up their nose at what’s shown up in their backyard, and fuck off from Ca…

Except the only demographic of net in-flow _moving to California_ are those in the top 5% or so.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-skelton-income-t...

Note: this article is from 2019, which is obviously pre-Covid. I still think it’s too early to predict any trend on post-Covid migrations (which would really be captured and 2022-2023 and 2023-2024, assuming you started planning to leave mid-pandemic 2021-2022)

California had its largest tax surplus in the history of a state ever the 2022 fiscal year.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#289

Post by dimator »

jvmfjvfjvf wrote: post #18
oldjim69 wrote: post #11

Nothing shows the power of unions more than the lengths companies go to fight them. In a Union there is Strength.

What strength do they have? Unions routinely cause jobs to be eliminated and offshored.

Blaming the unions for corporate greed (going offshore for cheaper labor) is utterly hilarious.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#290

Post by sokoloff »

muttled wrote: post #284
sokoloff wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are US states more populous than some European countries. Maybe a city can’t do it, but plenty of states could. It’s just damn expensive to try.

Reading your comment, I had the thought "I wonder if California's done it?" Turns out they've tried it 10 times. I'd imagine there's a lot of money being thrown against the initiative by for-profit insurance companies, which is an industry with a lot of cash to buy laws. https://stateofreform.com/featured/2023/05/california-seeks-...

That reads like they've tried to try it 9 or 10 times. They haven't even gotten to the point of finding out what all might turn out differently in a US state than in an EU country surrounded by other EU countries, all with roughly similar approaches to public health care.
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