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At this company, we are family

pboyd.io

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Re: At this company, we are family

#281

Post by JohnFen »

pseg134 wrote: post #265
JohnFen wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I consider an employer saying "we are a family here" problematic is because it's obviously untrue. My family will support me no matter what. My family will never fire me. My family actually loves me. None of those things are true with an employer.

Well sure if you approach the situation with a dictionary definition of family you will be disappointed. And to be honest your definition of family is from a hallmark card. That isn’t most people’s experience.

> That isn’t most people’s experience.

I don't think that either of us know what "most people's" experience actually is. With the people I've gotten to know over the years, that is the most common experience. Apparently, it's not with the ones you have gotten to know.

Both of us have a selection bias going on.

Re: At this company, we are family

#282

Post by grecy »

oldandboring wrote: post #33
FredPret wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

This is a refreshing comment to read. HN and Reddit discussions about employment in the US is often just a dumpster fire of "America bad", half-baked theories and observations from the perspective of the employee, where US workers have no rights and would be rioting in the streets if we hadn't been brainwashed by corporate media. Here on earth, what you wrote is much closer to the truth. The American economy is awash…

> with employees free to move around and chart their own destiny.

I've always found it much easier to "chart my own destiny" when my healthcare is guaranteed, forever, for free, whether I have a job or not.

Re: At this company, we are family

#283

Post by spixy »

sokoloff wrote: post #261
RajT88 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I contracted at a company once which operated like a family. Once you got hired, it was really difficult to get fired. So much so, most people there hadn't heard about anyone ever getting fired. Eventually, someone heard through the grapevine what a firing offense was: Getting caught having sex on the company campus with a coworker. But! The first time was a warning. That company had soooo much money to burn. Lots of…

> what a firing offense was: Getting caught having sex on the company campus with a coworker. If both/all people are consenting, that might be slightly tacky, but surely shouldn't be a fireable offense.

but sex with close familly members is illegal here :)

Re: At this company, we are family

#284

Post by habitue »

Aurornis wrote: post #222
GuB-42 wrote: post #129

I have seen reports of how things go in "old money" families. It doesn't look at all like the idea we make of families. They have access to vast amounts of resources, but family members don't have free access, far from it. There is council that decides how the funds are allocated, and when family members need some, they need to pitch how they are going to use it, and the expected returns. And if some family members a…

> when family members need some, they need to pitch how they are going to use it, and the expected returns. If we're talking about money for investment purposes (you mentioned expected returns) then this is what's know as a "family office" It's not really an old money thing. It's common for ultra high net worth families to establish a Family Office as a privately held company to manage their assets. The Family Office…

The OP might be talking about a family office, but they might also be talking about how the family decides how much each member gets. That's a separate issue from how the money is invested and grows

Re: At this company, we are family

#285

Post by poulsbohemian »

Had someone try to recruit me last week with the phrase “it’s like a family.” Kids… if you hear this phrase, run away. Likewise, if anyone ever calls you a “company man” consider whether it’s a similar ploy to manipulate your emotions.

Re: At this company, we are family

#286

Post by the_af »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #259
skrebbel wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you appreciate how completely a proper burnout can stop you in your tracks. It’s like telling a tennis player to keep playing a few more matches after breaking an arm in an accident. Tough up kid! It’s a hard world out there.

People seem to be focusing on this case specifically when the skill to force yourself to work applies in many scenarios and is a required skill to be successful in any profession. No pro tennis player hasn't played a game injured. No professional athlete has gone through their career without playing injured. Every off-season we hear the list of injuries players have been playing through. To be successful you must for…

> People seem to be focusing on this case specifically

Well, you did reply to someone claiming severe depression and burnout, so the specifics matter.

If you meant to post about hard work and doing stuff that might not be enjoyable in pursue of a paycheck, that's fine, but do you think it's warranted in reply to this specific case?

It'd be like going into generalities about how one can push oneself harder to run a 100 meters sprint when talking to someone without legs or arms. I mean, yes, sure, but isn't it a touch insensitive?

Re: At this company, we are family

#287

Post by the_af »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #235
the_af wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he was so depressed even brushing his teeth in the morning was an insurmountable task -- that is, clinically depressed -- I think your "learn to force yourself to work" suggestion is seriously misguided. Like someone else mentioned, if he had been hit by a car you wouldn't be suggesting he force himself to do anything. Clinical depression is your brain being hit by a car. If he had been hit by a car, who cares abo…

> I think your "learn to force yourself to work" suggestion is seriously misguided. I think it's misguided to think that there aren't many people force themselves to work in that and worse conditions. Why? They need the money. It's seriously misguided, to think you can have any successful career without being able to force yourself to work. Quitting work everytime there is a hicup will not generally lead to a success…

> If cleared for work and needed to keep their job, yes I would. Many people do in fact force themselves to work after truamatic events such as being hit by a car or being in a car accident.

And some people end up committing suicide after severe depression, so? "Push yourself harder" isn't usually the answer.

Re: At this company, we are family

#288

Post by khazhoux »

jedberg wrote: post #276
khazhoux wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people think that this philosophy only makes sense if you have gigantic compensation packages. What's so off-putting about: "Do well and you stick around, do poorly and you go away"?

> What's so off-putting about: "Do well and you stick around, do poorly and you go away"? Because I don't want to have that kind of instability if I don't get a lot of money to make up for it. It works because people know that if they get "cut" they'll be doing fine. Also, the best people have lots of options. If there are multiple interesting options, all else being equal the extra cash will help a lot.

> Because I don't want to have that kind of instability if I don't get a lot of money to make up for it

Sadly, I see way too many people in our industry who do get a lot of money, and still feel they're allowed to deliver little to show for it.

Re: At this company, we are family

#289

Post by that_guy_iain »

the_af wrote: post #286
that_guy_iain wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People seem to be focusing on this case specifically when the skill to force yourself to work applies in many scenarios and is a required skill to be successful in any profession. No pro tennis player hasn't played a game injured. No professional athlete has gone through their career without playing injured. Every off-season we hear the list of injuries players have been playing through. To be successful you must for…

> People seem to be focusing on this case specifically Well, you did reply to someone claiming severe depression and burnout, so the specifics matter. If you meant to post about hard work and doing stuff that might not be enjoyable in pursue of a paycheck, that's fine, but do you think it's warranted in reply to this specific case ? It'd be like going into generalities about how one can push oneself harder to run a 1…

> Well, you did reply to someone claiming severe depression and burnout, so the specifics matter.

I did say that it's a skill they should learn not that they should have done it in this case. So if we're saying specifics matter, the entire context of specifics matter.

> If you meant to post about hard work and doing stuff that might not be enjoyable in pursue of a paycheck, that's fine, but do you think it's warranted in reply to this specific case?

Yes, the person flaked out of their first job after seemingly a few months and literally asked if they should have forced themselves to work their 2 week notice period.

Telling them everything is ok is not the nice thing to do. It's an easy thing to do. It seems compassionate. But it's not. It shows no feeling or concern for their future. As pointed out with multiple examples, there are plenty of times people need to force themselves to work. It is an important skill to have to succeed.

They flaked out of their first job and flaked out so hard they didn't even manage to give 2 weeks notice. That is the hard reality here. And they specifically asked if they should have given the notice. To not advise them that forcing yourself to work is an important skillset is in my opinion a disservice and uncaring action.

Re: At this company, we are family

#290

Post by the_af »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #289
the_af wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People seem to be focusing on this case specifically Well, you did reply to someone claiming severe depression and burnout, so the specifics matter. If you meant to post about hard work and doing stuff that might not be enjoyable in pursue of a paycheck, that's fine, but do you think it's warranted in reply to this specific case ? It'd be like going into generalities about how one can push oneself harder to run a 1…

> Well, you did reply to someone claiming severe depression and burnout, so the specifics matter. I did say that it's a skill they should learn not that they should have done it in this case. So if we're saying specifics matter, the entire context of specifics matter. > If you meant to post about hard work and doing stuff that might not be enjoyable in pursue of a paycheck, that's fine, but do you think it's warrante…

> I did say that it's a skill they should learn not that they should have done it in this case.

So you gave unrelated advice to someone telling you about a bout of depression? Hm.

> Telling them everything is ok is not the nice thing to do. It's an easy thing to do.

I think you'll find your "easy way" is not the way to treat severe depression. It's a long, hard road.

You think being depressed is "flaking out"? Shame on you.

At which point would you say it's ok to admit you were wrong and that you misread the post? Is this really the hill you want to die on?

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