Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes' • Hacker News Board

Re: Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes'

#281

Post by thefz » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 8:20 PM UTC

Filligree wrote: post #6

serf wrote: post #3

I say this as a (begrudging) discord user : I don't know what they (Discord) did right to get communities to lock up all of their community and data into such a hard-to-index walled garden. People compared the loss of what.cd to the burning of the Library of Alexandria. While I do think that was an exaggeration at the time, I worry about the loss of effort and 'thought-power' when the discord walls get even taller th…

> I say this as a (begrudging) discord user : I don't know what they (Discord) did right to get communities to lock up all of their community and data into such a hard-to-index walled garden. Their app isn't buggy, is easy to use, voice chat and screen sharing just work , and it's extremely easy to onboard yourself -- you don't even need to create an account immediately. Love it or hate it, let's not pretend it's lik…

And it's the primary way I reach a group of 20 people.

Let's not fool ourselves, those not so much tech inclined find Discord way easier to set up and understand than Matrix.

Re: Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes'

#282

Post by jjulius » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 9:12 PM UTC

skeaker wrote: post #248

jjulius wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that the improvement for the users is just a byproduct in Discord's eyes. Pardon my pessimism, but I don't see Discord just deciding to stop monetizing more things. This is the encroachment of enshittiffication.

If you read the article that the term you're using actually originates from, it states that a necessary part of enshittification is that it makes the application less useful for users. This change does the opposite and doesn't qualify at all.

Hence my use of the word "encroachment". I'd be more than happy to eat my hat in a few years if it doesn't happen, but like I said, "pardon my pessimism".

Re: Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes'

#283

Post by jjulius » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

noirbot wrote: post #179

jjulius wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Discord, thus far, has generally been monetizing in ways I find pretty generally positive. I'm going to celebrate that until they actually start monetizing in shittier ways. I'd argue that's why we end up in the position we often end up in, as users. We take it little by little until it's too late. The "Well yeah that's capitalism and it sucks so /shrug, right?" argument feels kinda weak to me. If Discord's profitab…

But that's what I mean - I don't feel like they're beating users for more profit here as much as just eating Patreon's lunch. As a user, if someone I'm paying $5/month on Twitch or Patreon wants me to pay them via Discord instead, that's fine by me as a user. Discord has generally been doing a good job of making more money by selling more and better features to people, or at least trying to. If they're not profitable…

>I'm just not seeing how this new feature is obviously worse for users where we have to "take it little by little until it's too late". You're acting like Discord is removing features and doing clearly malicious things that we're all just tolerating.

Huh? In my first response to you I said, "I'd argue that the improvement for the users is just a byproduct in Discord's eyes". I've never said that this particular move is an inherently negative one for users who use Patreon. Two things can be true at once - a move primarily motivated by fiscal reasons can also be good for users. Because sure, as you and another user in this comment chain (their quote is the second quote below) have said...

>If they're not profitable now, and I doubt they are...

>There's no way Discord is profitable.

... I get that they need to make a profit. But as I've also said, I can't help but be pessimistic. This change may benefit users, but if they're still not profitable after this change, what next? Yeah, this might not "feel like they're beating users for more profit here as much as just eating Patreon's lunch", but that's the whole point.

Again, "pardon my pessimism"...

Re: Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes'

#284

Post by bhickey » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

spongebobstoes wrote: post #276

vicktour wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, It looks like they changed it in April. I was wrong, it wasn't 5mb it was 8mb. I am glad they upped the cap. I might have to try it out tonight, but I have effectively ditched it as a platform after the user name fiasco. I don't know if I can drop the way the file transfer size limit made me feel. I think you can tell a lot about a company by the way they want to monetize. If they were willing to force…

> If they were willing to force a subscription in order to share screenshots what else are they willing to do. I think this is a slippery slope argument. I also don't think there's something inherently wrong with charging money for a premium feature (large files) on a free service. You could crop your screenshot, for example. I'm not sure what the username problem is either -- I think having unique names will help th…

There's nothing wrong with them wanting to make money. Granted, I think they're going about it in a hilariously stupid way. Their product is miles better than Slack. Regardless, I'm no longer willing to rely on them.

Re: Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes'

#285

Post by jjulius » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 9:28 PM UTC

noirbot wrote: post #182

jjulius wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then, and I recognize that this is just my opinion, we should just let it die rather than going, "Thank you, sir, may I have another?".

I'm really confused by your attitude that a company giving out a quality free service is some kind of abusive orphanage owner giving out slop to kids here. Like, are you against them making money off of this? This isn't Netflix cutting off shared accounts and ramping up the price every year. This isn't Amazon swindling people into signing up for Prime. This is a company that sells product A also deciding to sell a co…

>I'm really confused by your attitude that a company giving out a quality free service is some kind of abusive orphanage owner giving out slop to kids here.

All I am is pessimistic about Discord in the long-run, as it tries to become profitable, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I'm very aware of the pessimistic part of my approach to the world and how it shapes my view, and perhaps could even be clouding my judgement here. I'd be equally curious about what makes you so staunchly defensive of Discord when it comes to some random dude going, "Hmm, I dunno, I feel like I've been here before and it hasn't ended well".

>If you think this is "well the company should die then" territory...

I don't think this specific move is, no. I don't feel like repeating that I'm simply pessimistic long-term.

>If we're bailing on companies and services at the first encroachment of them maybe seeking to be more profitable, then I have bad news about ads on Hacker News...

Again, see above, re: long-term pessimism. After all, I'm aware of ads on HN and I'm still here, aren't I?

Re: Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes'

#286

Post by noirbot » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:01 PM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #283

noirbot wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's what I mean - I don't feel like they're beating users for more profit here as much as just eating Patreon's lunch. As a user, if someone I'm paying $5/month on Twitch or Patreon wants me to pay them via Discord instead, that's fine by me as a user. Discord has generally been doing a good job of making more money by selling more and better features to people, or at least trying to. If they're not profitable…

>I'm just not seeing how this new feature is obviously worse for users where we have to "take it little by little until it's too late". You're acting like Discord is removing features and doing clearly malicious things that we're all just tolerating. Huh? In my first response to you I said, "I'd argue that the improvement for the users is just a byproduct in Discord's eyes". I've never said that this particular move…

Sure, but the long-horizon pessimism is back to what I was saying re: isn't that just being pessimistic about capitalism writ large? I don't think that's a wrong position to take, but it doesn't feel healthy or helpful to look at every banal or even positive thing a company does and immediately jump to "but because of capitalism, they're probably going to ruin it all later on."

There's no decision you can't make that statement about. It's always true that a capitalist company will have incentives that cut against the user. Pessimism is what it is, but at some point it feels like texting your friends every morning with "another day closer to dying." It's not wrong, but why do you feel it's important to bring up?

If anything, the part of your original statement that I most disagree with is that this is "the encroachment of enshittification". It's only an "encroachment" if you see pretty much any decision by any company as being a step towards enshittification. The only thing that wouldn't qualify is closing the company down.

Re: Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes'

#287

Post by noirbot » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:10 PM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #285

noirbot wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really confused by your attitude that a company giving out a quality free service is some kind of abusive orphanage owner giving out slop to kids here. Like, are you against them making money off of this? This isn't Netflix cutting off shared accounts and ramping up the price every year. This isn't Amazon swindling people into signing up for Prime. This is a company that sells product A also deciding to sell a co…

>I'm really confused by your attitude that a company giving out a quality free service is some kind of abusive orphanage owner giving out slop to kids here. All I am is pessimistic about Discord in the long-run, as it tries to become profitable, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I'm very aware of the pessimistic part of my approach to the world and how it shapes my view, and perhaps could even be clouding my…

I'm not putting words in your mouth - you literally referenced Oliver Twist as an analogy for the user's relationship with Discord with us begging for more slop.

> 'Please, sir,' replied Oliver, 'I want some more.'

> The master aimed a blow at Oliver's head with the ladle; pinioned him in his arm; and shrieked aloud for the beadle.

I suppose I'm defensive of Discord because I think they have and are generally acting in better faith and with a better model that is intentionally avoiding a lot of the worst problems that many of their peer companies have run into. It's grating to feel like you've found somewhere that's doing better than average, and then constantly have people show up and go "yea, but everyone else sucks and it'll probably be bad anyway."

It's also that it's not actionable. It's just doomsaying. It reminds me of the old saying that economists have predicted 8 of the last 3 recessions. It's not that I don't think there's a chance Discord will run off a cliff in the future, but it doesn't feel useful to abstain from praising their good moves now because there's always a chance they could ruin it later.

Re: Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes'

#288

Post by chx » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:57 PM UTC

vicktour wrote: post #272

chx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was certainly amazed how easy it is to just share my game screen while playing. If I screenshare with Slack it messes the system up and I need to kick the Windows Explorer task which causes it to restart which fixes the messes.

I wish it would actually work on Linux. I had to give up and just install OBS to share my gameplay with my friends.

> I wish it would actually work on Linux.

This is exactly why I stopped using Linux as a daily driver after trying for over a decade. Things don't just work. Life is too short for this. Win10+WSL just works especially since it's WSL v2.

Re: Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes'

#289

Post by redmerchant2 » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 12:14 AM UTC

serf wrote: post #3

I say this as a (begrudging) discord user : I don't know what they (Discord) did right to get communities to lock up all of their community and data into such a hard-to-index walled garden. People compared the loss of what.cd to the burning of the Library of Alexandria. While I do think that was an exaggeration at the time, I worry about the loss of effort and 'thought-power' when the discord walls get even taller th…

Related is the content locked behind sub stack and patreon paywalls.

I’m all for creators making money but it splits communities between subscribers and non subscribers. The most invested, and likely to make discussion, fans will pay taking their own contributions behind the paywall.

Re: Discord monetization: microtransaction stores and paid 'exclusive memes'

#290

Post by Filligree » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 1:29 AM UTC

Springtime wrote: post #176

Filligree wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I say this as a (begrudging) discord user : I don't know what they (Discord) did right to get communities to lock up all of their community and data into such a hard-to-index walled garden. Their app isn't buggy, is easy to use, voice chat and screen sharing just work , and it's extremely easy to onboard yourself -- you don't even need to create an account immediately. Love it or hate it, let's not pretend it's lik…

> you don't even need to create an account immediately Maybe some users have found it different recently but while this used to be the case years back when I joined (it was IRC style where you just picked a nickname and began chatting) I tried this twice again recently for someone—both with and without an invite—and it required creating an account (ie: verifying email and in another case it required a phone, inexplic…

I believe it depends on the invite. I haven't done it recently, but on the server I manage there's a checkbox for amount of verification required; the middle level is 'require a telephone number', though low is the default.