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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#281

Post by andruby »

jameshart wrote: post #274
93po wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or that they have, by far, the best products at given prices.

JD Power has Rivian, MINI and Kia scoring higher than any Tesla model.[1] Polestar, Ford VW, Audi and Hyundai are in the same ballpark for ratings. Several of those manufacturers have cars in the 30K range, well below the prices Tesla is starting at. That moat seems pretty small these days. [1] https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-elec...

Do they have electric cars in the 30K range? What’s the battery range for their entry level cars?

(I only know Rivian’s pricing by heart, which starts at 75K)

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#282

Post by sakopov »

outlace wrote: post #204
dagmx wrote: post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

Tesla Insurance is a kind of small moat. But I think Tesla is really banking on winning the automotive AI race. They currently don't seem to be winning, but that does appear to be their main gamble. If they can be the first to achieve level 4+ self-driving then they would definitely dominate regardless of charging infrastructure.

> They currently don't seem to be winning, but that does appear to be their main gamble.

So who do you think is winning it?

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#283

Post by dehrmann »

FireBeyond wrote: post #228
MattRix wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a big fan of Tesla myself, but surely if they figure out self driving that’ll make their cars relevant for the forseeable future? On top of that they seem to be able to make cars cheaper and more quickly than most of the incumbents.

That 'if' is a big one. Musk said, in 2015: "Self-piloting cars are a solved problem." "I view it as a solved problem. We know exactly what we need to do and we will be there in a few years." Last year, though, he was backpedaling: "Our focus is on solving the problem."

2023, his focus is on Twitter.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#284

Post by spike021 »

93po wrote: post #273
spike021 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only people who stand to lose are those weirdos who reverse into parking places. ;) As a weirdo who reverses into parking spaces, I find that it's almost always safer doing that in a crowded parking lot than it is to park nose in. When you're driving up to the spot you're already (hopefully) fully attentive to any risks (children, animals, people crossing, whatever), and can wait or carefully drive around those…

Many modern cars have very good backup cameras that also show incoming traffic from both sides and don't required 5 eyeballs

Maybe on HN the majority of people have those modern cars, but I assure you in the real world the odds are not that good.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#285

Post by 93po »

rootusrootus wrote: post #186
bushbaba wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla was always closer in vision to an energy company than auto maker. Wouldn’t surprise me if they leverage the healthy EV competition to growing their battery, supercharger, and energy generation capabilities. With these one day overtaking car sales revenue.

What battery capability? Do they even make the top 10? And superchargers are pretty sweet, but there is no moat at all there, anybody can make a NACS fast charger. EA hasn't done great, but that doesn't mean anything other than EA kinda sucks, there are plenty of manufacturers capable of building reliable DC chargers.

Tesla's Nevada plant makes 37 gWh per year and is currently expanding to 100 gWh per year. 100 gWh would put that at #2 if it was operational today, however the current leaders will also continue to grow rapidly so it's unlikely they'd go above the middle of the top 10 list.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#286

Post by zerohp »

traceroute66 wrote: post #240
outlace wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla Insurance is a kind of small moat. But I think Tesla is really banking on winning the automotive AI race. They currently don't seem to be winning, but that does appear to be their main gamble. If they can be the first to achieve level 4+ self-driving then they would definitely dominate regardless of charging infrastructure.

> Tesla Insurance is a kind of small moat. Only idiots buy black-box based car insurance (whether Tesla or any other). I mean, come on, insurance companies are already renowned for slippery policy wordings and the desire to get out of paying-out. Do you seriously think an insurance company having access to your driving data is really being done for your benefit ? I would be willing to bet its so that Mr Risk Adjustor…

> And once "computer says no" you'll have a hell of a time trying to fight it.

Cars have been equipped with event data recorders that capture information moments before the crash for at least 20 years. It is part of the air bag controller. Insurance companies have equipment to read that data and use it against customers all the time.

You don't need a Tesla or other black box insurance to get cheated.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#287

Post by dahfizz »

Reason077 wrote: post #247
dahfizz wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that the model 3 performance is still a convincing product, but cars like the Mustang Mach-E and BMW i4 are coming close. A few years ago there was no good option besides tesla, but in another couple years tesla will have fallen behind the competition

> "A few years ago there was no good option besides tesla, but in another couple years tesla will have fallen behind the competition" Much of the competition still struggles with software. Sure you can use Apple CarPlay or whatever for the basics, but as far as the full software suite goes, there isn't yet much that comes close to Tesla's performance, ease-of-use, UX, functionality, hardware integration, automatic ov…

This is my point. Tesla is good at a small handful of things, and making cars is not one of them.

They could sell batteries, charging infra, software, and whatever else to the companies that are competent at building (and fixing!!) cars. They aren't going to remain competitive on the cars themselves

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#288

Post by HWR_14 »

minhazm wrote: post #230
traceroute66 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. Agree 100%. At present, Tesla really feels like a bit of a "Jack of all trades, master of none" job. I'm certainly no Elon fanboi, but I will happily state that there are clearly a number of things they do well (certain core components and the charging network). But the cars themselves as a who…

> At present, Tesla really feels like a bit of a "Jack of all trades, master of none" job. That's an odd take. Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the world, and the second best selling vehicle in the US after the Ford F-150. It outsells the Corolla, Camry, Rav4, Civic, etc. Look at Mercedes, BMW and Audi sales, they've been plummeting because everyone is buying a Tesla instead. They're also the leading battery st…

According to the 2022 numbers I was able to find, the Model Y was number 9 in the US, behind the Tacoma, CR-7, Sierra, Camry, Rav4, Ram, Silverado, F-150.

And the numbers on most non-Teslas seemed down because of chip supply.

I don't think it's controversial to say that cars have been supply constrained in the past few years.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#289

Post by 93po »

josefresco wrote: post #118

Tesla fans before 2023: The Supercharger network is just supplemental! Most charging is done at home, range anxiety is BS! Tesla fans after 2023: The Supercharger is our most important competitive advantage! Any automaker not adapting our standard will die!

Tesla haters before 2023: Tesla is bad because X

Tesla haters after 2023: Sure X is fixed, but Tesla is bad because of Y

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#290

Post by dahfizz »

vxNsr wrote: post #211
dahfizz wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that the model 3 performance is still a convincing product, but cars like the Mustang Mach-E and BMW i4 are coming close. A few years ago there was no good option besides tesla, but in another couple years tesla will have fallen behind the competition

BMW in my circles has the reputation as being a brand you buy when you can afford to have a car in the shop most of the time. Most American brands have reputation as just being really poorly built and bad value props. Not sure how either of those two options overcomes that view.

Tesla also has quite the reputation for cheaply built cars that are outrageously expensive to repair
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