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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#281

Post by pmontra »

hackernewds wrote: post #230
mdorazio wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's a joke, but I think it's still a good illustration: https://i.imgur.com/XLuaF0h.png From everything I've heard, Apple's org structure is a lot more focused and UX-driven from the top down than basically any other large tech company. That means you get a lot less compromising and in-fighting. The other side is how Apple makes money compared to other companies. Meta makes money mostly by selling you (the us…

If you just draw the org structure for Apple differently in the link, it's same as Amazon..

If you look at it closely, any first level node with a child node at Apple can be bypassed by the central boss. The boss is connected to every other node.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#282

Post by silok »

grogenaut wrote: post #162
balaji1 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitness and gaming wasn't demoed much yesterday, but are going to be insane on the Vision Pro - so I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Also Meta could catch up if it was just software. But how big of a deal is the M2+R1? Anyway the metaverse was already being retracted, else this Vision Pro could have hammered Meta. Clearly Occulus has to evolve to match VisionPro. Controller has to be optional. It has…

Sweating profusely in an electronics device... I've ruined ski goggles just sweating in them and they're meant for that. Also just stumbling with these on or slipping and there you go cracked $3500 screen.

Honestly, how often do you bang your head hard into a wall/floor? Sure, I'm a tall guy, roughly 200cm, and I sometimes bang my head in a overhead doorstock. But that is typically some old cottage or similar, where I would probably not bring a XR headset anyway.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#283

Post by throw74775 »

zmmmmm wrote: post #231
throw74775 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right - and the Quest Pro isn’t well compared to what Apple is marketing here. I couldn’t accept a job working with a VR company because I couldn’t get past the nausea the Quest Pro induces in me. I think the point is that Meta’s investment is weak compared to Apple’s full court press. It really is laughable.

> I couldn’t accept a job working with a VR company because I couldn’t get past the nausea the Quest Pro induces Ouch. I'm sorry to hear that, I feel sorry for folks like you that are sensitive to nausea. There's so much potential in this tech but I can see a whole new class of disadvantaged people coming who aren't able to fully utilise it.

Yeah - I mean obviously I don’t know that Apple has solved this. If they have, it’s a clear winner as far as I’m concerned.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#284

Post by rvz »

dvt wrote: post #68
balaji1 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitness and gaming wasn't demoed much yesterday, but are going to be insane on the Vision Pro - so I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Also Meta could catch up if it was just software. But how big of a deal is the M2+R1? Anyway the metaverse was already being retracted, else this Vision Pro could have hammered Meta. Clearly Occulus has to evolve to match VisionPro. Controller has to be optional. It has…

> Also Meta could catch up if it was just software. This was Microsoft's warcry for years : who cares if Apple has better software? We have better hardware. Well guess what, software matters and it matters more than hardware. If you have both, you have literally a generationally-defining product (e.g. the iPhone), but even if you just have the software, you'll still eat your competitor's lunch. Why does everyone have…

> If you have both, you have literally a generationally-defining product (e.g. the iPhone), but even if you just have the software, you'll still eat your competitor's lunch.

The Vision Pro is really a first-product distraction for the Apple fans. This only further validates the market for XR devices and Meta's Quest's lineup will be the cheaper alternative for those who don't have iPhones or Macs (Since Android phones still outnumber iPhones) [0].

I'm only interested in the next iteration when it gets smaller and cheaper and when Apple announces a direct competitor to the cheaper Quest. Probably 'Apple Vision'. Then it will get its 'iPhone' moment, but it is not going to be the Vision Pro.

> Meta's about to get a rude awakening because "we can fix the software later." As if technical debt doesn't exist and as if you can so easily get engineers that eagerly want to clean up someone else's mess.

Meta is fine. They will just copy Apple and make it cheaper and at worse case, become the Android of XR headsets and glasses.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/272698/global-market-sha...

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#285

Post by askvictor »

cobertos wrote: post #272

I find it interesting that Microsoft had _so much of this_ 9 years go. I developed with the HoloLens 1 around 2016 and I recall: * Fingers together gesture clicking. * Voice activated menu navigation. It was glitchy/I never used it though. In 2023 these sorts of systems are much better though. * No controllers. It was all gesture based. Opening the start menu required your hand upturned, fingers together then outstre…

This is classic Apple. They're never the first mover; they let others fail, learn from those mistakes, and make a pretty polished product that everyone thinks they created the genre.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#286

Post by mcintyre1994 »

Related to his comment about the windows, I’m really curious how window management works in this. They’ve shown you can have multiple windows kinda in the space at the same time. But how do you rearrange them/move them around in space? How do you close them? Is there some way to put 2 apps next to each other in the same window, and keep them together when you move stuff around? I’m mostly curious because interacting with this stuff is still a mess on iPad, and the hand gestures they demoed for Vision Pro are a lot more limited than what we’ve seen with multitouch.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#287

Post by malloci »

JohnBooty wrote: post #21

But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've got one good eye and one bad eye. The bad eye is legally blind, has an off-center iris and is kind of lazy w.r.t. tracking. I'm extremely curious to know how Vision Pro deals with this. One certainly hopes there's some kind of "single eye" mode; certainly s…

> The Minority Report movie probably set the industry back by a decade or two. Waving your hands around to control stuff seems logical but is quickly exhausting.

There was an operations center I worked at that had a large touch screen (think cnn wall), that always sat in the corner of the area collecting dust, but whenever some higher up would visit it would get pulled out and used just to provide a wow factor. It was always the unlucky one that ended up having to use it during this time. The fatigue was horrible.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#288

Post by reedciccio »

andrethegiant wrote: post #269
lukevp wrote: post #133

From years of observing first-hand how hard it is to develop software, I’m shocked that Apple continually makes products that fit their aesthetic (eg. The crown and headband evoking the Apple Watch) and have coherent and mostly-baked software on launch like this. Is there a book about how they’re able to operate at scale and deliver such consistent things? Do they just have an insanely good product team? How do they…

I wonder how much can be attributed to Radar, their homegrown bug tracking / project management service.

Fascinating... Where can I read more about this Radar tool?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#289

Post by pocketarc »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #286

Related to his comment about the windows, I’m really curious how window management works in this. They’ve shown you can have multiple windows kinda in the space at the same time. But how do you rearrange them/move them around in space? How do you close them? Is there some way to put 2 apps next to each other in the same window, and keep them together when you move stuff around? I’m mostly curious because interacting…

The way it was presented seems to indicate that you can just set them wherever - if they don't move with you, then they'd have a physical position, right?

And for me, that sounds super exciting. Imagine going into a room and you have apps on the wall. You go into your home office, you have apps ready to go (picture a big status dashboard covering a wall, your music app to the left of your desk, stuff like that).

If it actually does work that way, that really is a whole new world.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#290

Post by pfannkuchen »

dvt wrote: post #50

This is a bit of a rant, but I bought a Quest Pro last year, and I feel it was a total waste of money. It's actually embarrassing how much of an unpolished piece of garbage it feels like. Sure, it's fun as a PCVR headset, but as a productivity tool or as a multimedia consuming device, or as a social tool, it completely misses the mark. And I'd say that 80% of its failure can be attributed to bad software. It's buggy,…

It’s kind of funny that meta stock didn’t drop on the vision pro announcement. What does that say about the market’s assessment of meta’s vr/ar prospects?
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