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Rust: The wrong people are resigning

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Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#281

Post by phlakaton »

gishbunker wrote: post #162
throwawaymaths wrote: post #6

> downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully Who would have suspected this was racially motivated? Not to defend any actions by anyone, but a keynote is an unusual place to talk about experimental feature a language is considering (unless it's a small component of a bigger update/forecast). That said once the decision was made they should have gone through with it.

If someone is in the minority, it's totally reasonable to ask, "could their minority status be a factor in their disenfranchisement?" Then you look at the data, and in this case come to the conclusion, "no, it was not a factor." That seems healthy and normal, it's not outrage bait to acknowledge that yes, sometimes minorities are at a disadvantage or are under represented. It's just as fallacious to say "of course ra…

I would in this case say: you look at the data, and realize you don’t know who made the decision or why, and have no evidence to come to any conclusion. All you know is that the disrespect is real.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#282

Post by HelloNurse »

gishbunker wrote: post #167
CrazyStat wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One community member made one decision for one conference which they probably thought wouldn't be a big deal (I understand now that it is, but to an outsider "keynote downgraded to regular presentation" don't seem like much). One person should not have been able to reverse the decision that was made by a collective leadership vote. The fact that was allowed to happen is a failure of governance. One of the people wh…

It's a bug. Bugs happen. Systems are still systems whether they deal with people or code. When big bugs happen, we evaluate why, and improve the system so it performs better next time. We don't blame people, we focus on what allowed people to make bad decisions. In this case, it sounds like a bad decision making process that needs a patch.

It's a bug when it happens to good people who are both willing and able to improve the system.

When it happens to bullies, they consider themselves smugly successful and coast onwards to the next fiasco.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#283

Post by conradludgate »

meindnoch wrote: post #271
wahahah wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the culture of virtual youtubing, discussing anything past the character and their content is a faux pas. On 4chan's /vt/ the euphemism for this is "roommate" discussion, and any posting of details about "roommates" is a bannable offense. Of course being 4chan some users will eat bans (primarily when they're upset and want to spite other users), so some details of some known roommates do inevitably surface from ti…

Cool, I guess. But I'm not in the (niche) culture of virtual youtubing, so I don't see why I should talk about a digital cartoon as if it was a real person :D Hope you understand!

You don't have to be part of a culture to respect someone's personal identity and privacy

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#284

Post by randyrand »

jeremyjh wrote: post #134
denvercoder904 wrote: post #95

It's not JeanHeyd Meneide's (PhD) first time rage quitting. He has a history of this. He previously rage quitted from the C++ community and moved to the C community. I wonder where he's moving to next. https://youtu.be/vaLKm9FE8oo

So we should blame the victim?

Who are you implying is the victim? The people who have to deal with rage quitters?

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#285

Post by meindnoch »

conradludgate wrote: post #283
meindnoch wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, I guess. But I'm not in the (niche) culture of virtual youtubing, so I don't see why I should talk about a digital cartoon as if it was a real person :D Hope you understand!

You don't have to be part of a culture to respect someone's personal identity and privacy

Wait, what? You're saying the guy's identity is an anime cartoon? Like, you think we should pretend he is a cartoon? You must be trolling... It's like saying that we should pretend the voice actor of Spongebob is really a cartoon sponge :D

I mean, I'm fine with people pretending that. But you can't expect or force me and others to play along... :D

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#286

Post by tibbydudeza »

Any committee of people usually means the worst of them - just like your HOA - the people who actually like doing this stuff of politicking and backstabbing are usually the worst people to lead.

Thank god we have a benevolent dictator for Linux and supporting actors (long may they live), really can't imagine the mess Linux it would have become if we had a committee.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#287

Post by fasterthanlime »

mort96 wrote: post #14

> Part of me is very disappointed in the enormous waste of time that is the “crablang” fork, and wishes the people involved could have engaged in a constructive manner instead. Any group who decides to fork Rust probably isn't in a position of power to turn the whole Rust Project and Rust Foundation into something less messy. Without knowing any of the specifics about this "crablang" fork, creating a well-resourced,…

When I say “I wish they could have (engaged in a more constructive way)” it’s an indictment of the lack of avenues through which one can constructively engage with the project.

I feel like the fork was exploitative, but I also feel like there isn’t a lot else they could’ve done, even if they wanted to. It’s sadness all around, right now.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#288

Post by dwb »

meindnoch wrote: post #285
conradludgate wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to be part of a culture to respect someone's personal identity and privacy

Wait, what? You're saying the guy's identity is an anime cartoon? Like, you think we should pretend he is a cartoon? You must be trolling... It's like saying that we should pretend the voice actor of Spongebob is really a cartoon sponge :D I mean, I'm fine with people pretending that. But you can't expect or force me and others to play along... :D

It's not remotely the same as Spongebob. The point is that whoever is behind Asahi Lina wants the character to be separate to their "real" identity. No-one is claiming they really are a digital cartoon. The request is to respect the clear wishes of the creator. It doesn't take anything from us to do so, and for all we know, they may have serious reasons for asking us.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#289

Post by fasterthanlime »

jumpyjumps wrote: post #215
kristoff_it wrote: post #192

> Part of me is very disappointed at ThePrimeagen, the Twitch streamer / YouTuber with whom I used to be friendly, for milking those controversies for every view and sub possible. For riling up the masses, adding fuel to the fire, creating the exact opposite of the climate we need to solve these issues. Nobody wants to name the one guy who Secret Hitler'd the keynote, but man let's name call a streamer unaffiliated w…

The cynic in me thinks that shot from fasterthanlime is more to do with ThePrimeagen being the new React Andy in the same content creation space as him, scooping up views/subscriptions.

Then tell the cynic in you that Prime and I are happily coexisting in the same space with different styles. I had issues with how he commented on the trademark stuff months ago, which resulted in harassment of friends of mine.

Things have gotten better since, Prime and I have talked yesterday and we’re good.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#290

Post by fasterthanlime »

rowanG077 wrote: post #108

Honestly this is a very bad look for both sides. But resigning over this tops everything. You don't resign at the first sign something is wrong, you try to help fix it. Sure if that doesn't work resign. No social environment is perfect and mistakes will always be made.

> you try to help fix it. Sure if that doesn't work resign

Why wouldn’t you generously assumed this is exactly what JT has done? Because from what I know, that’s exactly what JT has done.

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