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Where have all the hackers gone?

morepablo.com

281–290 of 351 posts

Re: Where have all the hackers gone?

#281

Sorry if this is off-topic but I often see in HN (either in articles posted here, or in the comments) lack of empathy. He talks about a "friend" and then proceeds to say things like "To be honest, I suspect he didn't know or think much about them" or "This was not a fruitful conversation". How is that supposed friend, who might very well be aware of this person's blog, going to feel after reading this? Is it a cultur…

Decades ago, my group of close friends made a pact: if anyone of us is talking shit, talking nonsense, or simply expressing attitude that smells of self deception, do not let it lie and declare it is time for a reality debate. Friends should never let friends descend into self deception, because that slippery slope can kill, as well as sour everything one experiences. Others seeing us in the midst of a reality debate…

The Boston Pour House had just opened! And now it is shuttered. https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/pour-house-landlord-has...

Re: Where have all the hackers gone?

#282
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misspelled JavaScript

Honestly, is it just me or do I find Javascript unnaturally difficult? I've learnt Python, C++, MATLAB, heck, even picked up some Rust and LabVIEW on the way. But I found Javascript (and Typescript) hard to pick up.

I've spent most of the last 20 years working with JavaScript, and as ridiculous as it sounds, I never quite got the hang of it. Meanwhile other languages clicked within a few days.

I had a similar experience with e.g. Flash vs GIMP. Even after a decade of not using it, I found that the Flash shortcuts were intuitive to me, but GIMP (which I use every day, several times per day) never quite "clicks".

I'm not exactly sure why this is the case. Another example is that I rarely use Python, and yet find myself vastly more productive in it.

Re: Where have all the hackers gone?

#283
post #74

Have other people observed the sentiment the author observes, around hackers being less common? The author has a list of reasons (VC money, business culture, managers, fear of the unknown). I, personally, have observed this reduction over my career, and I have my own idea of why that might be, my own phrasing of it. Perhaps it gets at the same thing as the author from a different angle. I think the reason, plain and…

> Have other people observed the sentiment the author observes around hackers being less common?

I've seen it as well.

I don't agree with what the author says are reasons for it. They just don't fit.

From what I've seen, hackers (in the truest sense) don't advertise. They have deep knowledge, but you only find how deep when you get into discussions with them, and most of the time they have no goodwill to engage in that because of two things, people who are dunning kruger; and social media.

Many of the learning paths have also been removed and are harder to find, the internet used to be freer than it is now. You have companies that dictate what stays up simply by using the court system as a coercive measure. The recent Quad9 thing shows just how bad this is getting across the board internationally. Copyright is being used to coerce, compulse, and limit actual innovation.

Hackers used to get by with their skills via certifications and jobs, many times they can't get certified now that only a single company handles testing in most places. I can't tell you specifically how they fail you, but its certainly not based upon whether you just have the knowledge.

The number of real hackers out there are significantly less because there has been less opportunity, and less resources that are easily found to get into it.

Many have worked very hard for their knowledge and some volunteer and help others, but there's an active trend to harass those that contribute like that, and volunteer psychology says you stop giving when it starts costing you. Dealing with a high number of deceitful people leads you to test them before providing any goodwill. If the hacker's don't like what your response implies they don't engage, and you are none the wiser.

Its not about life grinding them down, there are a lot of intelligent people who have stopped giving back because they see what providing that support is doing for society in general, its going in a direction that will inevitably fail because life will be intolerable, and volunteering is at a much higher cost to them personally than it ever was before.

Its like that adage that most people know, what you do in small things that don't matter shows what you will do in large things that matter. If you lie cheat and steal in friendly games, do you want them managing your company's finances? A smart person wouldn't.

There are also a lot of crazies out there that are really indoctrinated now too and they don't even realize it. They like the idea of something, but ignore everything else that would be needed to make it work. Completely irrational in some cases and can't even reason or think critically. Its sad.

Re: Where have all the hackers gone?

#284
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care about other things and people as much as tech. I can't just tinker with computers/machines and to stay up to date you have to invest some time in both the work and the communities. I'm very, very much a generalist. My other hobbies that straddle the line between hobby and professional interest (in that I do them for play but have gotten money for them) include fiction writing, marketing psychology, humanities…

See my other comment about what being a "hacker" traditionally means. It's not specifically tech-related. Your explorations of the physiological nature of emotions is well within the scope of hacking. I honestly think that one of the things that has diminished the hacker community to a degree is that it has become synonymous in most people's minds with computers. But really, computer hackers are just one subset of th…

I like your point of view (and very much appreciate your comments by the way).

By your definition, I would definitely count (as would, say, my cousin who is buying laptops for her kids to take apart and homeschooling them and taking a hacker's approach to parenting or the one who got really into theology for about ten years or my uncle who was obsessed with cameras or...), but I think the prevailing view sees hackerdom as tech (or at the very least mechanical) related and I also believe that hewing closely to a community's default understanding of a term is useful for communication, so I still wouldn't claim the title on HN. In an anthropological/historical/sociological exploration of hackerdom, I probably would. :)

Re: Where have all the hackers gone?

#285
While I think his terms “Soil” “surface” and “atmosphere” are kinda cute, I don’t understand the need. Each of these already has a very clear established term.

“Soil” = Implementation “Surface” = Language/Syntax “Atmosphere” = Community

Often when people talk about a programming language they mean a combination of these, but it takes very little to clarify which specific part you like or not.

Re: Where have all the hackers gone?

#286
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very astute. I'd like to add that the pipeline for child/adolescent hackers that existed in the pre-00s is basically non-existent. The only major path that still exists that I can think of is game modding. I'm a third-generation techie on both sides of my family (my paternal grandpa (b. ~1915) got started working with TVs and their mechanical parts and my maternal grandmother (b. mid 1920s) learned C in the 7…

> There are almost no pathways into tech now that revolve around tech as play and I think that's where a lot of hackers came from. I don't think I agree. Many of the old pathways don'ts exist anymore, but they've been replaced with new ones. Look at the maker community ("makers" are mostly just hackers by a different name), or look at the resurgence of hobbyist electronics. I think electronics is a great example, act…

That's a good point. Perhaps a refining of the question as to why there are fewer hackers in software specifically since you're right that the conditions exist for hacker development in electronics (and I'm super hype for a lot of that suff - I need to get off my butt and earn some $$).

Re: Where have all the hackers gone?

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s why nerds hate MBA-types. They see little value in understanding and engaging with the qualitative side of being human.

One reason, but to be fair MBA types can have the same lack of empathy. Their interactions can turn into (actually kind one of the things the author complains about) treating people purely as capital and relationships as means to financial end.

Interestingly enough I read the above comment and assumed it was speaking about the MBA types having the lack of empathy, not the other way around. The purely transactional relationship (often one sided) is one of my biggest issues with them.

Re: Where have all the hackers gone?

#288
post #52
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That fits exactly with non-fruitfulness. A discussion about programming languages became a discussion about someone's empathy.

"How to be a decent human in the world" is always a fruitful discussion. It is, perhaps, the most important one.

That kind of conversation often lacks for how to deal with deceitful, ruthless, and generally harmful people.

Not everyone is decent, and turning the other cheek doesn't work or communicate what it once did in this age of platform megaphones.

The corruption of indeceny is everywhere, and most people don't even realize it when they do it because of menticide, indoctrination, or whatever you want to call it.

Re: Where have all the hackers gone?

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I think in modern American vocabulary, "Friend" is thrown around quite loosely to mean "somebody who I know and I'm not adversarial with". Personally, I have very few friends - people with whom I have an emotional investment, who I'd trust to call if I had a bad breakup or needed money or some sort of personal help. But I have tons of casual relationships with folks that I'm on friendly terms with.

Perhaps you're describing an "ally"?

No, it’s an acquaintance you don’t hate.

Re: Where have all the hackers gone?

#290

Sorry if this is off-topic but I often see in HN (either in articles posted here, or in the comments) lack of empathy. He talks about a "friend" and then proceeds to say things like "To be honest, I suspect he didn't know or think much about them" or "This was not a fruitful conversation". How is that supposed friend, who might very well be aware of this person's blog, going to feel after reading this? Is it a cultur…

Hi! Author here. This is fair; I can see how you feel this way from the article. That said, "I suspect he didn't know or think much about them" isn't a value judgement on him; just as I didn't care much about his point on `for` loops, we all have things we care about more and less about than others. Same with "fruitful conversation" — I meant that for both of us! I think both of us could have had a better time. I'll…

"He's a fantastic dev who's built great systems, but I suspect he is not interested in these aspects of software" would have changed the entire tenor of the article. This person doesn't need to be in the article at all and I had a lot of trouble getting past this section to the many reasonable points made after it.
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