Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 420 posts

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#281

Post by makeitdouble »

maxdoop wrote: post #223

So many comments here are of the belief that "it's not the phones, it's the doom of the real world! Climate change, inflation, recession -- this is all bad for mental health of our kids." And I just want to ask if any of these people every met any real child. Imagine you are 14. You hear the climate isn't doing too hot, but then you pull out your phone and see your classmate getting tons of attention for some post he…

Teenagers actually ask their parents what it means for them that whole countries don't give a shit about the future of the planet.

Of course they care about their social circle and how they're seen in the world. But people tend to forget that it's also the age where they try really hard to understand the world in general, what kind of like awaits them, what it means to grow up, etc.

As a society we constantly ask teenagers to think about the future, and most of them actually think pretty hard about what it means for them to become adults and what world they'll live in.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#282

Post by mordae »

hydrok9 wrote: post #187
nh23423fefe wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagining you understand the motivations of diverse non-coordinating groups of people by labeling them addicts isn't persuasive or clarifying.

It's addictive behaviour, we've all seen it.

Yeah but the rats did not continue to drink cocaine if they had a nice place to hang out with other rats, right?

So maybe everyone is binging the sewer water simply because life's not really fun nowadays. Have you noticed how tired and cynical are young people nowadays?

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#283

Post by chmod600 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #111
jimmyjazz14 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only took a couple of weeks going without a phone for me to see a marked improvement on my outlook on life and the world, so to me the correlations between phones and mental health are pretty clear.

I’m curious: How much were you using your phone each day before you gave it up for a week? And for what? I set a 30 minute screen time limit for social media apps on my phone because I thought I was using social media too much. Then to my surprise I almost never hit that limit. I can consume all of my social media within well under 30 minutes each day and keep up with friends, family, and even HN just fine. I’m hones…

Not a direct answer, but I think a part of it is the general anxiety caused when the phone is physically present.

Maybe someone is sending me a message? Or maybe not, and of so, why not? It only takes 3 seconds to respond to a message, what are they doing that they can't respond? And Amy sent me a message four minutes ago and I didn't respond because I want to know what Dustin is doing first, but I don't want her to think that.... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....

But if you are swimming or something then your phone is out of reach and there's nothing you can do so you just accept it and enjoy swimming and talking to whoever you are swimming with.

Also it mixes everything together, so if you just want to do something benign, you take out the phone and have a zillion other messages to worry about.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#284

Post by adastra22 »

parthianshotgun wrote: post #178
adastra22 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids don’t have phones. They are the only ones among their peers who don’t have a phone. I told them they can get one when they write an app and get it listed on the App Store, not before. Most people I tell this to are impressed. The only time I got crucified was the last time I mentioned it on HN. This seems to be a particular bone to pick that HN users have.

Why an app? Doesn't seem terribly related, it's not like writing an app signals any sort of maturity. Maybe having them read Kant might be better, or...maybe just don't give them an out, be firm in the totality of the ban, lean into it without illusions.

Well she (the oldest) already expressed an interest in coding, so that was part of it. But the general idea is to make the compute device into a creative tool a that be how she gets her start using it, rather than have it initially be just a social media interface.

When I was growing up I played a ton of video games. I got started coding because I wanted to make video games. But as soon as I started coding, the video games suddenly became less interesting. I’m hoping a similar transition occurs with her, and that would be the indication she is mature enough to use the device as a tool to achieve things rather than a passive input channel for media.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#285

Post by MacsHeadroom »

arandomhuman wrote: post #181
adastra22 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids don’t have phones. They are the only ones among their peers who don’t have a phone. I told them they can get one when they write an app and get it listed on the App Store, not before. Most people I tell this to are impressed. The only time I got crucified was the last time I mentioned it on HN. This seems to be a particular bone to pick that HN users have.

I feel like this is a bit unusual: "I told them they can get one when they write an app" Why are you insisting that they publish an app on the app store, are they keenly interested in software development or something?

In Germany you cannot drive until you demonstrate the ability to perform CPR. Are prospective automobile owners keenly interested in first aid or something?

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#286

Post by hindsightbias »

afavour wrote: post #100
alexb_ wrote: post #45

There is so much instant dismissal of this entire idea that smartphones are harmful in this thread, most of which is just "correlation is not causation". Yes, correlation does not equal causation. But when it makes logical sense why there would be correlation, there is no way to actually measure causation (we can't exactly give kids placebo phones), we keep seeing the same correlation over and over again, why is it b…

> Smartphones give children the ability to bully eachother at a scale unlike any other. No, social media does. I think it's important to be specific about that because a smartphone is just a tool, same as a laptop or a desktop computer is (when I was a kid there was plenty of bullying that went on via AIM!) Having access to e.g. Wikipedia is of enormous benefit to young people. Having the means to easily call your pa…

What's a computer? -- 2017

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#287

Post by adastra22 »

arandomhuman wrote: post #181
adastra22 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids don’t have phones. They are the only ones among their peers who don’t have a phone. I told them they can get one when they write an app and get it listed on the App Store, not before. Most people I tell this to are impressed. The only time I got crucified was the last time I mentioned it on HN. This seems to be a particular bone to pick that HN users have.

I feel like this is a bit unusual: "I told them they can get one when they write an app" Why are you insisting that they publish an app on the app store, are they keenly interested in software development or something?

Yes, she already independently expressed an interest. She’s being doing Swift Playground and Girls Who Code summer camps even before this.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#288

Post by kergonath »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #99
alexb_ wrote: post #45

There is so much instant dismissal of this entire idea that smartphones are harmful in this thread, most of which is just "correlation is not causation". Yes, correlation does not equal causation. But when it makes logical sense why there would be correlation, there is no way to actually measure causation (we can't exactly give kids placebo phones), we keep seeing the same correlation over and over again, why is it b…

Gotta love the correlation is not causation crowd. Do they think Haidt and others haven't considered that? It's like the first thing that everyone considers. I personally think that HN dismisses these ideas because it would mean dire consequences for their high paying entrenched employers.

I think it’s a reflex because we care about this sort of devices. In the same way as gun enthusiasts are overall again any kind of gun control even in dangerous cases. “It cannot be dangerous because I like it”. We need some kind of cultural shift so that people who give their kids a smartphone are shunned like people who give their kids cigarettes or beers.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#289

Post by adastra22 »

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #285
arandomhuman wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is a bit unusual: "I told them they can get one when they write an app" Why are you insisting that they publish an app on the app store, are they keenly interested in software development or something?

In Germany you cannot drive until you demonstrate the ability to perform CPR. Are prospective automobile owners keenly interested in first aid or something?

Nice username btw.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#290

Post by djcooley »

From my experience on this, the single biggest determining factor on one's opinion is whether you have kids (I have elementary-age kids). We have to work like mad to limit screens, but it is an uphill battle. Their schools use them, their music teachers use them, their after-school tutoring (Kumon) uses them, and so on.

I have a vivid memory of my son's 6th birthday. At his school, kids would sit in a circle and get to ask questions to the birthday kid. One of the questions he got was: "Who is your favorite Youtuber?" His heart sank when he said he wasn't allowed to watch it, and the other kids were kind of shocked.

Post reply on HN