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Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

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Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#281

Post by nologic01 »

Every major privacy disaster that does not lead to dramatic repercusions convinces CEO's (and the shareholders that pay their salaries and bonuses) that the "move fast and break things" strategy is the winning strategy.

The result is that that we are no more than five years away (at most) from the surveilance economy getting a terminal stranglehold on society.

You will not be able to buy a car that is not always dialing home, the same way you already cannot buy a mobile that is not always dialing home.

In any case you will not be buying a car. You'll be buying a subscription to a car, renewable annualy under certain (small-print) terms of service.

Cars will not work without some insurance conglomerate receiving all information it wants and trading your behavioral data in opaque insurance markets.

Cars could stop working at any point. A digital roadblock is much cheaper and more comprehensive that a physical roadblock.

Taking public transport was never private (its in the name after all) but this mobility mode too is getting deeply integrated in the surveillance economy: you will only be able to pay for a trip using identifying mobile devices.

The argument is that people "don't care" about the direction things are taking. This is the most evil argument ever advanced.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#282

Post by nerdchum »

nologic01 wrote: post #281

Every major privacy disaster that does not lead to dramatic repercusions convinces CEO's (and the shareholders that pay their salaries and bonuses) that the "move fast and break things" strategy is the winning strategy. The result is that that we are no more than five years away (at most) from the surveilance economy getting a terminal stranglehold on society. You will not be able to buy a car that is not always dial…

All of this is being done in some level of secrecy so they're conflating not caring with not knowing or even worse people know something is going on but not the full details.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#283

Post by rasz »

actionfromafar wrote: post #269
gambiting wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>What is Microsoft's position on you selling your windows license to a third party? It's 100% allowed within the EU, even for OEM licences. There have been multiple court cases about this and microsoft lost every single one. But I guess that's not what you were implying?

I wonder why I can’t buy a game license in a similar way from somebody.

Because of German court as always https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/german-court-rules-against-...

excuse is "games are art, not computer software Oracle vs Usedsoft doesn apply".

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#284

Post by nologic01 »

nerdchum wrote: post #282
nologic01 wrote: post #281

Every major privacy disaster that does not lead to dramatic repercusions convinces CEO's (and the shareholders that pay their salaries and bonuses) that the "move fast and break things" strategy is the winning strategy. The result is that that we are no more than five years away (at most) from the surveilance economy getting a terminal stranglehold on society. You will not be able to buy a car that is not always dial…

All of this is being done in some level of secrecy so they're conflating not caring with not knowing or even worse people know something is going on but not the full details.

Society only works because there is massive amount of trust. It is mostly implicit trust, people don't sign fully-informed contracts left and right. People operate under the assumption that (during peacetime) they can go about their lives without worrying about a specific other subgroup organizing to systematically and explicitly work against their interests. I.e. they don't feel under attack and so they don't behave as such.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#285

Post by detaro »

rasz wrote: post #283
actionfromafar wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why I can’t buy a game license in a similar way from somebody.

Because of German court as always https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/german-court-rules-against-... excuse is "games are art, not computer software Oracle vs Usedsoft doesn apply".

Hm, what's going to be the relevant factor, a lowest-level court decision from Germany or the EU rules and the (binding) decisions of the highest EU court interpreting them that the German court bases its decision on?

> "games are art, not computer software"

That's not the legal interpretation of the topic, no.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#286

Post by kornhole »

shortcake27 wrote: post #253
kornhole wrote: post #250

This is going to be really interesting when(not if) someone gets Apple or Google's phone tracking history of all their device holders.

For Apple, Significant Locations are end-to-end encrypted, and Find My locations are only sent when requested and deleted after 24 hours. Please don’t say “they’re tracking your location anyway” unless you have evidence. This is Hacker News not Conspiracy News.

What evidence do we have that these locations are deleted after 24 hours and not backed up or shared elsewhere?

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#287

Post by rasz »

The only way to prevent this in the future is to dig thru the leak, it will leak sooner or later, and scrub for every Toyota/Lexus driving: politician, judge, higher up executive branch and military personnel, Toyota employee plus their closest families and plaster this data all over the net. Bonus points for additional analytical work finding treasure like mysterious regular trips to a motel just outside of town etc.

Privacy doesnt exist .. until its Politicians privacy on the line https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/14/politics/house-vote-supre...

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#288

Post by alwayslikethis »

chasd00 wrote: post #79
smolder wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a matter of time before that is legislated away as an option. Drunk driver detection and remote disable for law enforcement and other rights-trampling "safety" features will be always-on, probably by law. If it's not those, always-on comms will be mandated to help go to a self-driving fleet. One way or another, they'll force us to have spyware cars.

yeah i've always thought self driving and autonomous car fleets would be a godsend to governments. One order and you can immobilize a street, neighborhood, city or whatever. I bet it's hard to escape oppression on foot.

Oh, and no more pulling people over when you can just make the car drive itself to the police!

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#289

Post by alwayslikethis »

shortcake27 wrote: post #253
kornhole wrote: post #250

This is going to be really interesting when(not if) someone gets Apple or Google's phone tracking history of all their device holders.

For Apple, Significant Locations are end-to-end encrypted, and Find My locations are only sent when requested and deleted after 24 hours. Please don’t say “they’re tracking your location anyway” unless you have evidence. This is Hacker News not Conspiracy News.

You can't really claim something is end to end encrypted if you don't have access to the client source code to verify that this is the case. There is no good reason to trust any company for sticking to their words, especially under pressure from the government.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#290

Post by 93po »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #99
sumtechguy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is anything after about 2012 it probably does. Also if this hack is out of the software I think it is, I am not surprised. Some of the main devs were more worried about what a function was named than how to make it work correctly and securely.

This is, effectively, a list of which cars and when: https://www.toyota.com/audio-multimedia/support/3g-faq/

hooray for my shitty yaris with manual windows, no chip in the keys, no remote fob, and basically nothing other than wheels
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