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The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

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Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#281

Post by oblio »

brookst wrote: post #251
oblio wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some categories, for sure. We have no idea about the impact of AI. It's almost like the EU is regulating stuff that's really scary.

Absolutely. The EU's regulatory posture is to prohibit things that could cause harm in the future. It's very consumer-first, risk-avoidant, and a fair way to do things. For someone who's more willing to accept risk and who prefers regulating bad outcomes rather than just scary things that could possibly have bad outcomes but which nobody can predict, it looks over-protective. But I fully support the EU's right to tak…

> Europe hasn't been at the forefront of any tech or cultural change for centuries, and seems to be getting along just fine.

"Centuries" is mega hyperbole when you look at physics, chemistry, etc, etc up until at least 1930.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#282

Post by soulofmischief »

renjimen wrote: post #161
soulofmischief wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the current climate, and generally, you should distrust your government on a systematic level, and take pride in doing so. They certainly distrust you.

That’s a wildly sweeping statement. I am assuming you don’t live in a functioning social democracy. You should try it some time, it might restore your faith in the ability of centralised power to improve the lives of its citizens

You're correct, I live in the USA.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#283

Post by gumballindie »

zirgs wrote: post #273
gumballindie wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, ai is not “others”, it’s software. This argument of yours is equal to if you dont want to get mugged dont go outside.

If someone wants to learn stuff from your work - they will and there's nothing that you can do about it. I can train a LoRA on someone's artstyle in a few hours on my PC. You can rent a GPU and do it under an hour. It takes more time to curate, process and caption images than to actually train the AI. It's that easy. So yeah - the cat is out of the bag and you will have to adapt.

I can download a whole set of movies even tho the piracy cat’s been out of the bag for a while. But if i monetised it i am in a hell lot of trouble. My debate points are not about stopping ai. They are about how we shape it’s use as a tool.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#284

Post by konschubert »

alasdair_ wrote: post #240
konschubert wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effect is going to be that all the innovation happens elsewhere, big AI companies will develop outside Europe. And Europeans will only get to benefit as consumers, not as makers of AI. And the EU will take that as a reason to regulate even harder and then also somehow end up giving a bunch of money to its telcos. EDIT: My point is that regulation doesn’t just prevent “bad products”. The compliance overhead also p…

>The effect is going to be that all the innovation happens elsewhere, big AI companies will develop outside Europe. The EU has rules for aircraft and automobile manufacturing and yet Airbus and Ferrari seem to be able to continue to be world leaders in their fields. Moreover, there are very few restrictions on many industries in Somalia, yet for some reason it fails to be a hub of innovation. Regulations don’t immedi…

I am not arguing for zero regulation.

I’m saying you have to consider the price of regulation.

Airbus is able to compete in the airliner market because it’s a huge incumbent.

Maybe this is the price we have to pay for safe planes. But there is almost zero competition in the airline manufacturing sector because the regulation is keeping out any potential competition.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#285

Post by ClumsyPilot »

neximo64 wrote: post #280
kolinko wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would all be using Internet Explorer now, if not for the US Government. So using browsers as an argument against regulations is a bad analogy.

Still made by a pest. The original comment was about how Europe isn't able to nurture technology.

Anyone heard of ARM and ASML? Skype, Spotify? Just because we don't do software giants does not mean we can't do technology.

Maybe US economy would be healthier if you did not allow like 3 companies to buy up all the competition.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#286

Post by cmilton »

ttjjtt wrote: post #250
cmilton wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because the results of the last few decades of tech optimism have been so utterly dismal? Can you expound upon this a bit? In my view, we have witnessed astonishing progress in tech over the last few decades. >neo lib deregulation dream What is your dream?

I meant to specify social results. Innovation is valuable only in so far as it raises the well-being of society as a whole. All the critical measures of this are going in the wrong direction. Technological advancement might be astonishingly fast but that gives no indication of its value. 10-15 years ago used I knew a good few tech optimists, including myself & would regularly encounter more. Now, I don’t know one, an…

I believe that tech has helped solve food shortages across the world in recent decades. Tech has cured disease. Even recently it helped to develop a vaccine at record speed. Tech has provided internet connectivity for the most remote parts of the world.

That gives me optimism.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#287

Post by neximo64 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #285
neximo64 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still made by a pest. The original comment was about how Europe isn't able to nurture technology.

Anyone heard of ARM and ASML? Skype, Spotify? Just because we don't do software giants does not mean we can't do technology. Maybe US economy would be healthier if you did not allow like 3 companies to buy up all the competition.

Of those 1 is software as you mention, 1 is not an EU company, and 1 was founded 40 years ago, before tech regulation was a thing.

If you did a like for like equivalent for American technology it can't even compare. You could find small countries in Asia that have done more.

What the author of the original comment is saying is thats not a surprise.

Surely you can't be serious with the EU almost lecturing the world on how AI should work, using Spotify? or even counting ASML and ARM? On what basis?

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#288

Post by ClumsyPilot »

neximo64 wrote: post #287
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone heard of ARM and ASML? Skype, Spotify? Just because we don't do software giants does not mean we can't do technology. Maybe US economy would be healthier if you did not allow like 3 companies to buy up all the competition.

Of those 1 is software as you mention, 1 is not an EU company, and 1 was founded 40 years ago, before tech regulation was a thing. If you did a like for like equivalent for American technology it can't even compare. You could find small countries in Asia that have done more. What the author of the original comment is saying is thats not a surprise. Surely you can't be serious with the EU almost lecturing the world on…

Would you accept your own argument in relatuon to China - since they dominate production of hardware, we should adopt their top-dpwn approach to industrial policy and exploitative labour laws?

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#289

Post by neximo64 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #288
neximo64 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of those 1 is software as you mention, 1 is not an EU company, and 1 was founded 40 years ago, before tech regulation was a thing. If you did a like for like equivalent for American technology it can't even compare. You could find small countries in Asia that have done more. What the author of the original comment is saying is thats not a surprise. Surely you can't be serious with the EU almost lecturing the world on…

Would you accept your own argument in relatuon to China - since they dominate production of hardware, we should adopt their top-dpwn approach to industrial policy and exploitative labour laws?

Well no, but I would argue that we don't have to since we have (collectively as the west) our own software and hardware. When we look at the aspect sold into western markets, it is not being designed and made in China it is being contracted to be built there.

I would also argue that the labour exploitation is being done by American/European companies.

The point i'm trying to make with the EU is that it doesn't but wants to extraterritorially rule other countries, with no industry knowledge or stakeholders, other than a market to sell to. Where companies exist in question, are mostly American is because their government doesn't hamper development and lets companies thrive in a reasonable way that is balanced and fair.

The EU version is quite overbudensome where the company wont easily exist in the first place and that has no impact into the labour practices to outsourced companies anyway. There are plenty of European companies that manufacture in China and exploit labour - which is a separate argument to the ability for companies to be nurtured to exist.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#290

Post by zirgs »

gumballindie wrote: post #283
zirgs wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wants to learn stuff from your work - they will and there's nothing that you can do about it. I can train a LoRA on someone's artstyle in a few hours on my PC. You can rent a GPU and do it under an hour. It takes more time to curate, process and caption images than to actually train the AI. It's that easy. So yeah - the cat is out of the bag and you will have to adapt.

I can download a whole set of movies even tho the piracy cat’s been out of the bag for a while. But if i monetised it i am in a hell lot of trouble. My debate points are not about stopping ai. They are about how we shape it’s use as a tool.

The difference is that AI training is not illegal and styles aren't copyrightable. So you can already make stuff in the style of some other artist and then sell it.
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