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Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

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Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#281

Post by azalemeth »

Vogtinator wrote: post #261
azalemeth wrote: post #118

If I wanted to buy a new phone that I could root, install a custom ROM on, and use without voiding the warranty, what's the current best bet? One Plus used to be pretty good, but they've gone down in freedoms and up in price. Samsung are an obvious no. The entire design of the iPhone is specifically aimed at keeping the user out of it. Linux phones aren't usable yet. The shop on the /e/ foundation website seems to be…

Any Sony Xperia: https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices

The next level page on "unlock the bootloader" immediately states (a) they'll charge you a significant fee if you make a warranty claim – even if it's for a hardware defect; and (b) the following "gem" of shitty DRM:

> Certain pre-loaded content on your device may also be inaccessible due to the removal of DRM security keys. For devices running recent software versions, for instance Xperia Z3, the removal of DRM security keys may affect advanced camera functionality. For example, noise reduction algorithms might be removed, and performance when taking photos in low-light conditions might be affected. The secure user data partition may also become inaccessible, and you will not be able to get any more official software upgrades if you unlock the bootloader.

Thanks for the thought though. I like that they have a page at least.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#282

Post by preisschild »

j1elo wrote: post #48
pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

Xiaomi does the same (or at least did until my latest phone change i.e. around 3 years ago). You must unlock the bootloader before being able to install a custom recovery image such as TWRP, which itself is used to install custom ROMs. This unlock involves: creating a user account in the Xiaomi services website, logging into that account from your phone's system, then having the phone logged in for at least 7 days ,…

Yeah, I bought a Pocophone F1 when it came out, expecting to instantly install LineageOS, but then I found out that I have to wait a full week and set up a Windows VM.

The phone per-se wasn't bad, but that was my last purchase from Xiaomi.

Replaced the Pocophone with a Google Pixel 5A and I will stick to Google Pixel because GrapheneOS is great.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#283

Post by preisschild »

shultays wrote: post #280

Only Google knows precisely what all that data is and what it is used for. What data? It is a new phone, you don't have any data on it yet. Whatever data google is collecting is the data they put in it

Location data, Wi-Fi (B)SSIDs passwords, information about other devices in your LAN.

The Wi-Fi BSSID alone is enough to pinpoint someone's exact location.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#284

Post by shultays »

preisschild wrote: post #283
shultays wrote: post #280

Only Google knows precisely what all that data is and what it is used for. What data? It is a new phone, you don't have any data on it yet. Whatever data google is collecting is the data they put in it

Location data, Wi-Fi (B)SSIDs passwords, information about other devices in your LAN. The Wi-Fi BSSID alone is enough to pinpoint someone's exact location.

Sounds like something a public wifi or a vpn can solve. Then you can wrap your phone in a tinfoil if you wish.

I am being a bit unfair to author. Is this a problem? yes. But then author is also stretching the definition of personal data

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#285

Post by phatfish »

preisschild wrote: post #282
j1elo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xiaomi does the same (or at least did until my latest phone change i.e. around 3 years ago). You must unlock the bootloader before being able to install a custom recovery image such as TWRP, which itself is used to install custom ROMs. This unlock involves: creating a user account in the Xiaomi services website, logging into that account from your phone's system, then having the phone logged in for at least 7 days ,…

Yeah, I bought a Pocophone F1 when it came out, expecting to instantly install LineageOS, but then I found out that I have to wait a full week and set up a Windows VM. The phone per-se wasn't bad, but that was my last purchase from Xiaomi. Replaced the Pocophone with a Google Pixel 5A and I will stick to Google Pixel because GrapheneOS is great.

Xiaomi have required this for a while now, not sure exactly when but at least since 2016.

The other big Chinese brands that have cheaper high end handsets don't offically support unlocked bootloaders as far as i know. They subsidize their handsets with all the junk that their custom Android UIs push, so don't want owners to flash a custom ROM.

The top 3 phones in the LineageOS install stats page are Xiaomi for this reason. https://stats.lineageos.org/

Often phones that do support unlocking (without the hoop jumping) you have to pay a premium for, like the Pixel.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#286

Post by nottorp »

j1elo wrote: post #48
pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

Xiaomi does the same (or at least did until my latest phone change i.e. around 3 years ago). You must unlock the bootloader before being able to install a custom recovery image such as TWRP, which itself is used to install custom ROMs. This unlock involves: creating a user account in the Xiaomi services website, logging into that account from your phone's system, then having the phone logged in for at least 7 days ,…

Xiaomi requires a google account, a xiaomi account and a sim card inserted just so you can enable developer mode.

That's what returns are for, I guess.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#287

Post by phpisthebest »

zamnos wrote: post #199
amw wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is something that might be defensible. I would like to propose that it never is, and only seems so sometimes because our society is insane.

I don't think I'm insane for not wanting my cellphone to get stolen and then be sold as a working phone to somebody else. Anything to cut down resale value of stolen phones. With full root you can overwrite the IMEI, and the stolen phone is as good as new.

The other way to do that, which I know is crazy in modern times, is to actually enforce property crime laws and punish people that steal things...

how novel...

instead we have to accept draconian controls on our ownership of devices as a way to combat theft. I would much rather see criminals punished....

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#288

Post by phpisthebest »

kristopolous wrote: post #208
pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

It's crazy how much Google has become just another dickish proprietary corporation. If they could have somehow stayed ~2003 Google...

I am not sure why people are shocked by this, as any company gains market share in a given market the more hostile to their customers / users they become.

This is not new to tech companies, I suspect though many people believed they would somehow be different than other corporations. Maybe because the people heading those corporation seemingly were aligned politically when in the past they were not?

Regardless Google is following the same script that many many many other companies, tech and not, follow

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#289

Post by bippihippi1 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #259
_ea1k wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes its a valid reason. I love the idea of being able to unlock the bootloader. I don't love the idea of someone else being able to do it before the phone gets to me.

> I love the idea of being able to unlock the bootloader. > I don't love the idea of someone else being able to do it before the phone gets to me. At the time it was their phone, and they can still do it by waiting 30 days. But what does it matter if you're just going to flash your own system anyway? Let them put whatever they want on it as long as you can blow it away and replace it with yours. And if you're not goi…

the preexisting firmware installs the bootloader, unless you mount the memory chips directly to your pc.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#290

Post by mort96 »

_23sd wrote: post #258
eidolon_93 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't love the idea of someone else being able to do it before the phone gets to me. So how do you feel about PCs then? Because most computers sold doesn't have these draconian protections and apparently that has never been an issue.

Never been an issue? Just recently there was a LTT review of an Aliexpress laptop [1] where they found the Windows install had been tampered with (mostly because the Windows was pirated). PC or phone or anything, you buy stuff from shady sources it will not be trustworthy. If Xiaomi is/was locking down their phones to try and make purchasing from places like Aliexpress safer, I think that is a losing battle. [1] http…

I bought a laptop from Dell and found the Windows install had been tampered with; there were all sorts of adware and trial software installed. Luckily, since the boot loader wasn't locked, I could install my own, clean OS.
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