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Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#281

I don't think she, or other non-violent criminals, should be in prison. There are much more affordable and constructive ways to handle this. This isn't rehabilitation or justice, only punishment.

Punishment is an essential element of justice. How can there be justice without punishment for the crimes committed. Or do you propose the dead will have their life rehabilitated somehow?

I was not aware that elizabeth holmes murdered people, how is this relevant?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#282

I don't think she, or other non-violent criminals, should be in prison. There are much more affordable and constructive ways to handle this. This isn't rehabilitation or justice, only punishment.

You do the crime, you do the time! It's called punishment because it's a damn crime. A person who made the decision to use shoddy materials to build a building knowing it will collapse, and that building does collapse and killed thousands. So that person should be "rehabilitated"? Give me a break. A little common sense goes a long way.

what does common sense tell us about having incredibly high incarceration and recidivism rates? are we too stupid to do better than throw everyone in a cage?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#283
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your bio says 'fuck elon musk.' My Twitter bio does. Added shortly after he banned links to Mastodon, broke Tweetbot (and lied about them breaking the rules), and announced breaking changes to the Twitter APIs I use extensively at work with a few days warning.

you seem passionate and knowlegable about this so i will ask you. i want to know more about the API changes. detractors say that it was at best an irresponsible change to the API that inconvenienced companies that use it. proponents say that musk simply stopped making the API free which was always unsustainable and people should have known better. what was really going on?

Entire businesses had their products cease to function, with no warning, and no explanation from Twitter, until a couple of days later they got vaguely libeled by Twitter's developer account. (https://twitter.com/TwitterDev/status/1615405842735714304)

They then announced the free API would go away entirely with a week's notice and pricing details "next week". (https://twitter.com/TwitterDev/status/1621026986784337922) That change got delayed several times.

Absolute clown show. If they'd said "in 90 days we're shutting down third-party clients and implementing a paid tier", people would've grumbled but seen it as fairly reasonable. Kneecapping devs who've been building Twitter apps and integrations for a decade was cruel and unnecessary.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said she didn't want children. She may well have. So what? She wanted investors' money, too. Having wants does not justify harm to others.

It is a tougher one than you'd think. The harm is no greater than any other person that decides to have a child as a single parent. The children will have a father, and a mother to visit until they are in their teens. That is more family than a single woman who goes to the sperm bank to have children.

That is definitely not true. There's no particular reason to think being a single parent is, ceteris paribus, harmful.

But having a parent in prison growing up? That's extremely hard on kids.

And more than that, part of having kids is an obligation to protect and care for them. An obligation she knew that there was good odds she would not be in a position to fulfill. That's horrific to me.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone guilty of wage theft getting hit by that law? Just saying, in practice its clearly not about jailing menaces to society.

Do you know of anyone that’s been convicted of wage theft, sent to prison, convicted of a new count of wage theft, sent to prison, and convicted of a new count of wage theft … or did you just want to flog your hobbyhorse regardless of how poor the fit was?

That is, funnily enough, precisely the point.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#286
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like Holmes and am pleased she's getting some comeuppance, but I can play Devil's Advocate in this one space: maybe she always wanted kids, focused on her career (lol), then this all happened, XYZ. Holmes is 39 years old. If she really, truly wanted biological children then now was the time to make sure it happened. She's a villain, but she's also a complex human being that probably has multiple priorities, g…

she, as most sociopaths, was overly ambitious, that got her into trouble after all. probably has the same mindset now regarding "having kids" or "family"

Sure, maybe. I guess I'm just saying there is more than one plausible explanation for the decisions she made regarding motherhood. I may detest what she did, she doesn't need any defending. It's easy to be overly reductive about people, but most people have complex, unrelated, and sometimes contradictive motivations.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the more detailed description of the feature clearly explains what it does and doesn’t do. Say you sign a contract, one section is titled “Seller Assumes Liability for Injury” but then the text of that section lists some circumstances where they don’t. Totally fine and legal.

Maybe, if all that is within the four corners of the contract. I don’t think that’s what we are talking about here; our current discussion seems to involve the marketing name of a car feature (full self driving) and the technical functionality that name represents. With that in mind it seems that you are not thinking about the Rst. 2d Torts 540 duty to investigate rule. I can be justified in relying on something (e.g…

Yes, good faith and fair dealing has nothing to do with this and shows that while you may know enough to pull out the restatement, you don’t really get the law. Good faith has to do with conduct in the execution of an agreement that undermines the deal without seeming to technically violate it. It doesn’t have anything to do with putting caveats in fine print.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#288
post #122

If you steal more than $5K three times in California, you will get 25 years in prison [1], and while I think that's disgusting and detestable, I don't want any elites getting special treatment either, so as to force change in those sentencing guidelines. [1] https://www.kannlawoffice.com/grand-theft.html

Three strikes can be triggered with much less, even petty theft can trigger it. In this example, the defendant received 25 years in prison for his third crime of stealing a pair of socks[0] "Specifically, the Three Strikes law made it possible for a repeat offender to receive a prison sentence of 25 years to life for a nonserious or nonviolent felony (for example, petty theft with a prior)"[1] [0] https://www.rolling…

Disgusting... thanks for sharing.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#289
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you mean "causally"? Not sure the degree of formality is relevant.

No, (and I'm not sure that "causally" would even result in a comprehensible sentence). Her deliberate use was exploiting her very close childhood friendship with Tim Draper's kids to get Draper to fund her and use his network to find other investors and to get the message out. Another was her using her network to get a number of distracting and bizarre board members (ex generals and the like), especially when Vally V…

“She both deliberately and causally used her connections” would mean she concisely chose to use the connections and the use of those connections was a necessary condition of whatever transpired.

Seems to me to be a much stronger statement than “she used her connections and didn’t seem to care too much about doing so”.

Regarding her seeming effortless transition into the public spotlight, I’d imagine it’s learned from a young age as an “elite”. Fun fact, her great* grandfather made the yeast company you probably use.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given she falsified medical results for so long, it's guaranteed some people have died as a result of her actions, that goes further than your average fraud

She was not convicted on any charges about falsified medical results. She was only convicted on defrauding investors

Yes I know, I don't necessarily agree with the charges either, the falsified medical results is clearly the worst part for me.
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