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Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

reuters.com

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Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#281

Post by humanizersequel »

ashwagary wrote: post #239
humanizersequel wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Does Coinbase stake on the user's behalf? Yes. While blockchains like Ethereum are open protocols and staking is permissionless, it isn't exactly easy if you aren't savvy and/or somewhat well off already. The value add here is an IT service. >Do they take a cut? Yes, between 15 and 35 percent. >What is Coinbase doing with the staked crypto? Nothing, staking involves "locking" your crypto in exchange for the privileg…

>This is equivalent to "mining" in a proof-of-work protocol, and comes with similar rewards from the protocol in exchange for securing the network (with the risk that if you deviate from consensus, your staked crypto could be "slashed"). Coinbase operates the validator on your behalf. Using your analogy, if I send money to a Bitcoin mining company, they use the money to buy/run miners, and then send me a percentage o…

The analogy wasn't great, but I'm struggling to think of an accurate one — investing or giving a loan to a company is obviously different than having a company interact with a protocol on your behalf. Maybe it's more like email providers?

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#283

Post by RC_ITR »

humanizersequel wrote: post #278
RC_ITR wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, temporarily giving someone currency that they eventually give back to you is more or less the definition of a loan, no? And Coinbase is doing the work of abstracting that process into a single instrument (Coinbase earn)? Because that’s securitization.

>temporarily giving someone currency that they eventually give back to you is more or less the definition of a loan... And Coinbase is doing the work of abstracting that process into a single instrument (Coinbase earn)? Because that’s securitization. This is not a specific enough definition. I don't think my checking account is a security, despite the fact that I am loaning my bank money which they eventually give ba…

Wait, don't play fast and loose here.

I defined a loan. because you said:

>The bank is quite literally writing multiple loans.

I was establishing that Coinbase is also making loans.

Then, I said

>Coinbase is doing the work of abstracting that process into a single instrument (Coinbase earn)? Because that’s securitization.

Because that (pooling multiple loans and sharing the proceeds of those multiple loans with lenders) is securitization.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#284

Post by reducesuffering »

kragen wrote: post #95
pazimzadeh wrote: post #93

> Feb. 9, 2023 — Kraken to Discontinue Unregistered Offer and Sale of Crypto Asset Staking-As-A-Service Program and Pay $30 Million to Settle SEC Charges https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-25 What's the difference between Coinbase and Kraken?

armstrong's iron balls

Coinbase is losing $2.6B a year. Seems like he has to make a stand somewhere so that his $130m house doesn't get repossessed...

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#285

Post by [deleted] »

detrites wrote: post #264
skywhopper wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re just making things up now. Person B doesn’t have to “file a ream of identify documents” or keep watch on regulations to put $1k into Bitcoin. As for taxes, you owe them on lottery winnings as well. And for any non trivial amount, you will pay them.

Which of the worlds various hundreds of disparate tax obligation and financial regulation jurisdictions are you referring to? Or have you "made up" there's just one and its yours?

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#286

Post by [deleted] »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #177
joefigura wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SEC's position is that some crypto coins are securities. Gambling, hookers, political donations, and non-profit donations are all regulated. Securities are regulated even more tightly because it's *really* easy to commit fraud and fleece people of their money by lying about investments. Capitalism works because most people trust that they can make investments without being defrauded. With hookers, non-profit dona…

That isn't what the argument is about. Neither does Coinbase argue the SEC is in charge of regulating what isn't a security, nor do even other branches of the government agree. The CFTC says they're in charge of regulating most cryptocurrencies.

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#287

Post by peripitea »

ETH_start wrote: post #247
DeRock wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of one?

Pretty much all of them: they go out of their way to state it is not an investment. Taken the GNT token, used in the Golem network, for example: https://assets.website-files.com/62446d07873fde065cbcb8d5/62...

Just reading this and I don't understand how anyone would say this passes the Howey Test. This is clearly a security. The only possible debate is whether there is an expectation of profit, but I can't see anyone seriously entertaining that debate -- there was an ICO! What do you think the median person buying into that ICO was expecting? "I'm going to spend a few thousands dollars on this token that might have utility in this project in a few years"?? Come on.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#288

Post by humanizersequel »

RC_ITR wrote: post #283
humanizersequel wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>temporarily giving someone currency that they eventually give back to you is more or less the definition of a loan... And Coinbase is doing the work of abstracting that process into a single instrument (Coinbase earn)? Because that’s securitization. This is not a specific enough definition. I don't think my checking account is a security, despite the fact that I am loaning my bank money which they eventually give ba…

Wait, don't play fast and loose here. I defined a loan. because you said: >The bank is quite literally writing multiple loans. I was establishing that Coinbase is also making loans. Then , I said >Coinbase is doing the work of abstracting that process into a single instrument (Coinbase earn)? Because that’s securitization. Because that (pooling multiple loans and sharing the proceeds of those multiple loans with lend…

>I was establishing that Coinbase is also making loans.

As far as I understand, you are incorrect. Coinbase is not making loans, at least not in the context of Coinbase Earn. Happy to be corrected here.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#289

Post by mrguyorama »

tasuki wrote: post #208
aardvarkr wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gambling is a pretty easy concept to understand, and it’s been with all of us since we were kids. Person A wagers an amount that a certain outcome will occur. Person B accepts that wager and agreed to the terms of the wager. If every kid on the playground can understand how a bet works I guarantee adults can too.

I can assure you many people gambling on slot machines think they'll come out ahead. Gambling can be extremely addictive and harmful, to the point the addict stops using logical reasoning.

I don't think they actually think they will come out ahead. I think they are willfully ignoring reality. Gambling addicts also lie about how much they have won gambling, but that isn't because they can't count, they just ignore the inconvenient reality, because being aware of that reality would be extremely painful when you don't feel like you can control your addiction to gambling.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#290

Post by mrguyorama »

hef19898 wrote: post #232
peyton wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Securities regulators worldwide have devised processes for compliant crypto securities, so it is possible. It’s more like the guy running the FAA is a former Boeing exec and refuses to grant airspace authorization to rocketry startups.

The FAA isn't in charge of airspace access anyway, is it?

Who do you file your flight plan with?
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