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“Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

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Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#281

Post by inglor_cz »

Threads about obesity tend to be the ones where even smart people talk past each other. There tends to be a lot of judgment and just eat less! proclamations.

This attitude bugs me. If a programmer "solved" a memory leak by simply adding RAM, without trying to understand why it happens, the HN commentariat would pounce on him and call him various uncharitable names.

But few people here seem to be disturbed by the fact that we don't yet know what drives obese people to eat more food than people with normal weight.

This is not a trivial question, it is actually a deep question, much like "why do some people slide into alcoholism while others can have their single glass of wine every evening for 50 years and never feel cravings to drink more".

But for some weird reason, few people even ask this question aloud, even though without discovering the root cause for overeating, any society-wide fix is unlikely to happen.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#282

Post by TrackerFF »

Dunno about you guys, but back when I was verging on being outright obese, I felt like shit. Sweating from doing pretty much any physical activity, sleep apnea, summers were horrible due to the heat and extra sweating, clothes never fit and just looked bad, non-existent interest from the other sex, and people in general being more unfriendly (trust me on this one, the difference is like night and day) - and just a general feeling of discomfort. Heartburn, tiredness, gout, the whole nine yards.

I'd be amazed if someone truly obese actually feels like they're healthy.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#283

Post by proc0 »

stametseater wrote: post #5

What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. It seems to come entirely from propaganda on social media telling fat people what they want to believe.

This happens because the social norm (in the US) is to avoid any conversation or subject matter that is even remotely negative. You can see it in every day interactions, people just can't handle criticism of any kind. Conversations must only have positive tones and people are socialized to avoid anything that might result in conflict.

This has something to do with political correctness, which is now the status quo, but that's a different matter.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#284

Post by HyperSane »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #76

I wonder what's going to happen long term to the recent trend of celebrating obesity in advertising. E.g. go to any Target and you will see overweight or obese models wearing the clothes they sell. On one hand you have to represent your current population, and with the majority of Americans overweight or obese, that's who your customers are. On the other, can this be seen as normalizing a disease?

And it is very hypocritical that they only do that for women, male models are still all skinny.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#285

Post by gruez »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #57
stametseater wrote: post #5

What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. It seems to come entirely from propaganda on social media telling fat people what they want to believe.

I think there are several reasons: 1. Historically being fat was considered a sign of good health. Of course, this was during times of massive food scarcity and the definition of fat was probably very different from what we consider fat today. 2. Massive amounts of money involved in telling people to eat/drink more, and then spend more money in gyms and taking pills to lose that weight. As opposed to just eating less…

>1. Historically being fat was considered a sign of good health. Of course, this was during times of massive food scarcity and the definition of fat was probably very different from what we consider fat today.

I'm surprised you put that in and not:

4. motivated reasoning. People want reasons to justify their current lifestyle and not having to put in hard work to change it.

For point #1, most western cultures already idealize thinness. Therefore that's not really a factor unless you're from a culture that idealizes being fat.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#286

Post by gadders »

otherme123 wrote: post #235
Jtsummers wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, especially the 22 BMI target. For me (5'10") that would mean 155lbs, I'd have to shed (going by my scale which estimates body fat percentage) around 28 lbs of fat (I'm at 15% fat right now, so 28 lbs would get me to 0% which is unhealthy) and 7lbs of other weight to hit that target. Could I lose some weight? Sure. But I won't. Back on the exercise habit after a few months off and I'm getting slimmer but my we…

I'm 185 cm (6'1") and 73 kg (161 lbs), for a BMI of 21.3. I still have more than 0% fat, but I'm certainly slim. I don't have to fight at all to keep my weight as it is, and I'm healthy. You say 30 BMI, but in my experience unless you are lifting a lot of weights 25 is the upper limit. Ten years ago I hit 25 BMI, and despite feeling "normal" there were already the first signs of being fat: thights always red, sweaty…

My BMI is 31 but my body fat % is 18%. I've been lifting weights seriously for 12 years, since I turned 40, but I would never be mistaken for a bodybuilder.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#287

Post by CharlesW »

noslenwerdna wrote: post #192
CharlesW wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm glad that "fat acceptance" may be turning a corner and will be banished hopefully and there can be a semblance of rational discourse. TFA doesn't even use the phrase "fat acceptance", which is a completely different thing than claiming "obesity is healthy". The former is simply an effort to destigmatize it, like we destigmatize other forms of addiction. Also, "obesity is healthy" is a strawman — no credible per…

> Also, "obesity is healthy" is a strawman That simply isn't true. Just look into the "Health at Every Size" movement. There are some reasonable ideas there, like destigmatizing it as you mentioned. But there are also some harmful and ridiculous ideas prevalent in that movement - namely that "weight loss should not be a health goal". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_at_Every_Size

IMHO you have a low-generosity reading of the article you linked to, which says that this approach "de-emphasises weight loss as a health goal", and that "the basic premise of HAES is that 'well-being and healthy habits are more important than any number on the scale'".

This lines up with my experience. One can do things like the Potato Diet to lose 100 pounds fairly quickly, but it's definitely not a healthy way to lose weight, and it doesn't equip you to remain at a healthy weight for the rest of your life.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#289

Post by mancerayder »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #276
mancerayder wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're lucky. I a) intermittent fast, so never eat breakfast b) never eat dessert c) don't snack d) lift weights 3x a week and do other sports once a week e) don't eat fast food, and often skip appetizers, and stick to protein and veggies. If I don't do these things I get fat fast. So my sympathy for 'unlucky' is minimal; I'm sure only a small percentage of people suffer from such a poor metabolism that anything…

You're lying to yourself. Stop doing all of that, start counting calories and you will not gain any weight.

You're greatly oversimplifying, which might help you but it encourages ignorance of macros and how differently they're metabolized. It's well known among performance athletes that the body adapts to types of macros. Ultra marathon runners have their bodies adapt to consuming dense caloric foods (fats), as one really obvious example. Professional sports teams employ nutritionists and it's not because they need help counting calories in, calories out.

I've spent a lot of time experimenting on myself, I can eat lower calories but if those lower calories are bread and sugary crap, I don't get leaner, I get fatter and weaker.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#290

Post by gruez »

jodrellblank wrote: post #270
wkat4242 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't the only thing in life of course. If you're healthy but living on the street it's not a very nice life. For me being obese is not really a choice. It's just really hard to do anything about it, especially because I tend to overeat when I encounter stress in life. And I'm not wired with the discipline to fix it. I often go on diets but they never last. Also, living alone cooking is a real chore and there's no…

This comment unpacks into a whole world of ideas around obesity which get pushed under the rug by just saying it's "your choice" and you need "discipline" and "diets" to fix it. Most thin people don't stay thin by discipline - or not much discipline. Most thin people don't stay thin by team sports and weightlifting. Most thin people aren't going on diets, ever. Most thin people aren't "choosing" to be thin, they have…

>1950 had 10% of Americans being obese. Now 35% are. Has there been a decrease in weightlifting since then? A paucity of dieting? No, surely both of those are on record highs with gym memberships and Weightwatchers being so profitable. What about a collapse of discipline - through one of the most productive times in human history, today with lowest unemployment in 20 years?

>[...]

>Like: car dependent suburbia

It seems weird to blame car dependent suburbia for the rise from 1950. Did "car dependent suburbia" really get worse compared to 1950? Given urbanization trends, you'd think that car dependence actually went down compared 1950.

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