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Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

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Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#281

Post by brigandish »

selimthegrim wrote: post #280
brigandish wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the chosen length a short novel? Books range from a few pages to hundreds of pages. If we make some unlikely assumptions - that there were 10,000 students attending Nalanda every year from its foundation to its destruction, and that each student wrote for only 1 hour a day, 5 days a week for 40 weeks of the year, that gives us 2,000,000 hours of writing. Over 763 years that is 1,526,000,000 hours. There were 2…

How was Taksashila (where my cousins live today by the way) destroyed by Muslim invaders when it happened before Islam existed? Don’t you mean the Huns, as your own cited source of Britannica says? See my other comment in this thread. cf. “Decline” in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxila#History >The White Huns and Alchon Huns swept over Gandhāra and Punjab around 470 CE, causing widespread devastation and destruct…

You are of course, correct, an egregious error on my part.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#282

Post by sudhirc »

unmole wrote: post #185
db1234 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Ayodhya mosque-temple riots are another facet of this clash. Western commentators glibly say 'Hindus are anti-Muslim'. The issue in India is so much more nuanced than that; there is bad blood on both sides going back a thousand years. Islam cannot escape from these charges: the religion is fundamentally intolerant of non-Abrahamic ones, especially ones with liberal iconography (like Hinduism and Buddhism). Bhak…

Shivaji sacked the city of Surat twice. I'm pretty sure you'll find plenty of stuff named after him in and around Surat. Oh, and the same Shivaji allied with the Muslim Qutub Shah of Golkonda to defend the Deccan homeland from the Northern invaders.

Who was ruling Surat when Shivaji sacked the city? Shivaji sacked Surat when it was ruled by Mughals. I am not sure why you have failed to take that into account. When Shivaji attacked, did he carry out a general massacre of non-combatant population like the invaders did?

Conflict among Hindu kings were rarely deadly for the conquered population. But conflict with invaders mostly resulted in massacre, loot, and slavery. So they are not the same.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#283

Post by rramadass »

random314 wrote: post #212
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not just talking about border disputes, and I don't make this connection lightly. Pakistan was explicitly founded as a country for 'Indian Muslims'. The 1971 war wasn't over a border dispute: West Pakistanis openly genocided and raped[1] Bengali Hindus (and Muslims, for that matter), declaring Bengali women 'war booty', which forced India to step in. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide As for '…

> If this is your sort of goalpost, then even relatively homogenous countries like Germany and Italy shouldn't really exist today, given that they only coalesced in the late 19th century. The strength of modern state propaganda is such that people have developed all kinds of crazy notions about history. The nation state is a modern invention and this involves myth building about the country going back to ancient time…

For your edification w.r.t. India : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33556881

A person who equates Mandarin:China :: Hindu:India has no clue about either.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#284

Post by random314 »

rramadass wrote: post #283
random314 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this is your sort of goalpost, then even relatively homogenous countries like Germany and Italy shouldn't really exist today, given that they only coalesced in the late 19th century. The strength of modern state propaganda is such that people have developed all kinds of crazy notions about history. The nation state is a modern invention and this involves myth building about the country going back to ancient time…

For your edification w.r.t. India : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33556881 A person who equates Mandarin:China :: Hindu:India has no clue about either.

It's a typo: I meant Hindi-India. In any case, I won't be responding to ultra nationalist, religion supremacist, right wing trolls anymore. So you can take your "edifications" and random articles elsewhere.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#285

Post by rramadass »

random314 wrote: post #284
rramadass wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your edification w.r.t. India : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33556881 A person who equates Mandarin:China :: Hindu:India has no clue about either.

It's a typo: I meant Hindi-India. In any case, I won't be responding to ultra nationalist, religion supremacist, right wing trolls anymore. So you can take your "edifications" and random articles elsewhere.

Sigh; again with the name-calling ad hominem attacks from an anonymous account.

Reminds me of this : https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/17/remain-silent/

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#286

Post by pankajdoharey »

sudhirc wrote: post #276
pankajdoharey wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show one Sanskrit manuscript older than 1446. Not a single Stone inscription, Copper plate, Terracotta inscription of classical sanskrit has ever been found nor any Hindu site. Show a single evidence? The evidence of sanskrit found are of Buddhist Sanskrit at Buddhist schools like Nalanda here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda#/media/File:Nalanda_cl... Not a single archeological evidence of Hindu (Brahman) dharm…

> Not a single Stone inscription, Copper plate, Terracotta inscription of classical sanskrit has ever been found nor any Hindu site Ok here you go. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hathibada_Ghosundi_inscripti... . > All those sanskrit books of Hindus religion were written much later infact they couldnt be written before teh invention of Devanagari script. Sanskrit is script agnostic language so Sanskrit manuscript ar…

First of all you clearly have no clue that the Modern Classical Sanskrit is a newer language an earlier language existed known as BHS(Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit) this language was written in a script older than Devanagri script. There are ample Buddhists manuscripts of this language written in various scripts like Kharoshti. Why do we not find a single Brahman Dharm manuscript?

Simply because much of (Brahman Dharm) Hinduism was invented after the invention of Devanagri script in 11 century.

Also The classical sanskrit in which all Brahman Text (Hindu text) is written cannot be written in any Indian script before 11th century. Simply because the very basic sounds of sanskrit "Chha" (छ), "Tri" (त्र), "Gya"(ज्ञ), compound sounds, halants and visargas are not present in any script before that.

In the end what is the basis of your claim? All your claims are sand castles without archaeological evidence which is non existent for Brahman Dharm (Hinduism).

Vedas dont prescribe anything in terms of rejecting books, 33% of Rig Veda is only talk fire burning rituals and Indra, i suggest you first read it before speaking about it.

You must also address Bhavishya Puran.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#288

Post by sudhirc »

pankajdoharey wrote: post #286
sudhirc wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not a single Stone inscription, Copper plate, Terracotta inscription of classical sanskrit has ever been found nor any Hindu site Ok here you go. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hathibada_Ghosundi_inscripti... . > All those sanskrit books of Hindus religion were written much later infact they couldnt be written before teh invention of Devanagari script. Sanskrit is script agnostic language so Sanskrit manuscript ar…

First of all you clearly have no clue that the Modern Classical Sanskrit is a newer language an earlier language existed known as BHS(Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit) this language was written in a script older than Devanagri script. There are ample Buddhists manuscripts of this language written in various scripts like Kharoshti. Why do we not find a single Brahman Dharm manuscript? Simply because much of (Brahman Dharm) Hi…

> Simply because the very basic sounds of sanskrit "Chha" (छ), "Tri" (त्र), "Gya"(ज्ञ), compound sounds, halants and visargas are not present in any script before ....

Wrong Brahmi was capable of representing Sanskrit sounds.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi_script

> Simply because much of (Brahman Dharm) Hinduism was invented after the invention of Devanagri script in 11 century.

With this statement you have denied the foundational claim of Buddhism. You have also disowned numerous philosopher of Buddhism. If Sanatan Dharma didn't exist what exactly was being reformed by Buddha?

> Also The classical sanskrit in which all Brahman Text (Hindu text) is written cannot be written in any Indian script before 11th century.

Classical Sanskrit?? Are you claiming Vedas were written in classical Sanskrit? Then Vedic Sanskrit was used for exactly what? Vedic books are transmitted in Vedic Sanskrit which had more sounds than classical Sanskrit. On top of that Vedas are shruti (heard) and they are transmitted orally even to this day.I hope you know about 6 pre- requisite (vedangas)required to read Vedas . First vedanga is Sikhsa which si about correct pronunciati. Chandas comes second and defines the metre of the Vedic hymns.

> Vedas dont prescribe anything in terms of rejecting books, 33% of Rig Veda is only talk fire burning rituals and Indra ...

Which part of veda teaches commandment and asks the followers to be the blind followers? What is wrong in 33% of rigved praising universe and nature. Is regressive but Buddh vandana is progressive?

> You must also address Bhavishya Puran.

Produce the questionable reference first and then we can debate.

On that note you also address the birth based castism and misogyny of Buddhism.

Ariguttara Nikaya (II.35) "beings/ puggalas" are of four categories: a)tamo tama parayano, of miserable birth and bound for misery b)tamo jyoti parayano, of miserable birth but bound for happiness c)joti tama parayano, of happy, good birth but bound for misery

https://ia800205.us.archive.org/11/items/pt1samyuttanikay00p...

I can produce more references directly from Buddhist text. I challenge to do the same from Vedas and related text.

Regarding your 11th century claim. Brahmin produced Vedas, upvedas, vedangas, upnishads, brahman granths, aranykad, arthshastras,plays and poetry of kalidas,bharthari, numerous astronomy, mathematics books, 6 schools of philosophy, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Bhagwad Gita 11th century onwards when India was attacks from the invaders. I nstead of defending kingdoms, these large projects were started by the ruling class.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#289

Post by sudhirc »

pankajdoharey wrote: post #274
sudhirc wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddhism is not that different from Hinduism. Both coexisted and debated with each other for centuries until islamic invasions started. Buddhism being a pacifist sect fell first.

So you must first tell what is the actual name of this religion, and its not "Hinduism" the origin of teh word Hindu is in Persian language. The persian dictionary define "Hindu" as "Thief", Also Buddhism is a Nastik Darshan (Atheist philosophy). Hinduism whose actual name is Brahman Dharm is Theistic philosophy worshipping gods etc. Also no evidence exist that Brahman dharm ever existed at the time of Buddhists, At…

> So you must first tell what is the actual name of this religion

Names are not that important. But since you asked it's called Sanatan Dharma. It's also called Hindu Dharma.

> The persian dictionary define "Hindu" as "Thief",

References from pre Islamic Persia please. Don't give the usual Sindu to Hindu explanation. If Persians don't have a S sound then why salaam didn't became halaam? What about Persia itself? Why not Perhia? Word Hindu is a thoroughly Sanskrit word. It define the region from Himalaya (हिमालय) to the Indian Ocean(इंदु सरोवर).

> Brahman priests he met said they have not written it yet.

Vedic tradition is called श्रुति (heard). It's transmitted for thousands of years through the oral method. I have replied you else where on the importance of oral method in Vedic tradition. So what exactly is your fascination with writing down? Writing down makes it authoritative? Then respond to the clear defence of birth based caste and discrimination against women in Buddhism. Refute this please.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/29757366

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#290

Post by pankajdoharey »

sudhirc wrote: post #288
pankajdoharey wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all you clearly have no clue that the Modern Classical Sanskrit is a newer language an earlier language existed known as BHS(Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit) this language was written in a script older than Devanagri script. There are ample Buddhists manuscripts of this language written in various scripts like Kharoshti. Why do we not find a single Brahman Dharm manuscript? Simply because much of (Brahman Dharm) Hi…

> Simply because the very basic sounds of sanskrit "Chha" (छ), "Tri" (त्र), "Gya"(ज्ञ), compound sounds, halants and visargas are not present in any script before .... Wrong Brahmi was capable of representing Sanskrit sounds. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi_script > Simply because much of (Brahman Dharm) Hinduism was invented after the invention of Devanagri script in 11 century. With this statement you have d…

* Again you should first read your own source wikipedia, where do you see in the alphabet table these sounds:

"Ksha" (क्ष), "Tri" (त्र), "Gya"(ज्ञ) in Brahmi script character ?

[correction i was talking about Ksha (क्ष) mistakenly wrote Chha (छ)]

* Hathi Bada Ghoshundi is Pali in Brahmi script again which is a Buddhist language not Hindu, there is no actual manuscript of this photograph so it could be a hoax. None of the Museums have the inscription for all we know it was on wood. and it got destroyed no one actually ever dated it only this photograph exists.

Whatever references you are pointing dont have a single actual evidence just claims your entire Arthashastra was discovered after 1901 in paper form no manuscript again.

I can point to many inconsistencies but the fact remains none of the claims have any actual physical or archaeological evidence, and to top it all Brahman dharm is trying to find their existence in buddhist manuscript and language because Brahman dharm have no evidence of their own.

You must stop with these claims and point to some actual archeological evidence.

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