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Google stopping coding competitions

developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Google stopping coding competitions

#281

Post by sireat »

hackernewds wrote: post #272
skeeter2020 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were never the poster child for "employee centric" companies; they were just young, successful, made an awful lot of money and spent it. From this timeframe Fog Creek was the defacto "developer first" company.

Disagree. What is even "Fog creek"?

Joel's blog was extremely influential so it put Fogcreek in the spotlight.

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s...

There had to be early Google employees who read that.

One could even argue that Joel and Jeff both having popular dev blogs drove the early adoption for Stack Overflow.

Re: Google stopping coding competitions

#282

Post by Beldin »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #39
burnished wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tip outs are better in bougie joints frequented by tech workers. This isnt a contradiction to your main point, maybe more of a damning with faint praise if anything.

> Tip outs are better in bougie joints frequented by tech workers. This sounds a little trickle-downy. Why not strive for an economy where people doing important work like feeding their communities just... Don't need to be tipped? I know it sounds crazy in today-terms, but if it makes any sense, it makes tipping culture look like more of a problem than a boon to anyone receiving the tips.

> I know it sounds crazy in today-terms

I know of no other country where tipping is such a major part of sustainable wages. In all other countries I know of, tips are a supplement to the wage - a nice-to-have, a perk of the job. Sometimes needed to make the job worthwhile, because it isn't worth doing at minimum wage. But nowhere near the extent the US has lifted it to. Basically: industrialised begging for change.

So: no, it doesn't sound crazy at all in today-terms.

Re: Google stopping coding competitions

#283

Post by aws_ls »

agolio wrote: post #82
naillo wrote: post #12

Interesting that just a few days ago they posted about opening basically the same thing but focused on ML https://developers.googleblog.com/2023/02/MLOlympiad2023.htm... Interesting contrast and I guess a sign of the changing tides.

Am I missing something or are these just regular Kaggle competitions, but with no prizes? What is google offering, other than the branding? Why are competitors motivated to take part?

When they started the Google code jams, around 20 years ago, for the initial few years they used TopCoder as the platform. So it may play out that way.

Re: Google stopping coding competitions

#284

Post by aws_ls »

bberrry wrote: post #107
shp0ngle wrote: post #65

So after 20 years - who won? Who is the Best Coder?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gennady_Korotkevich

Also known as 'tourist'. He is the best in the world on several platforms, including codeforces[1] which has the cultural leadership now for algo coding competitions.

[1] https://codeforces.com/profile/tourist

Re: Google stopping coding competitions

#285

Post by dredmorbius »

I was wondering what was happening with Google's open source team notably Chris DiBona.

Riffed, as noted by SJvN at The Register (https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/27/google_open_source/>) and discussed here (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34558576>) about a month ago .

Chris made a brief comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34563641>.

Re: Google stopping coding competitions

#286

Post by sgtnoodle »

stbtrax wrote: post #276
sgtnoodle wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been really happy at Zipline. My salary is comparable to when I was at Google, and my equity has way more potential. As far as stability goes, I can't imagine a company being more supportive of its employees.

There is absolutely no way your salary is comparable. Are you only counting base and not tcomp? edit: Ah, he's counting start-up equity as not worthless. That's definitely one way to value it.

I was talking about base salary. Zipline has been very proactive about making adjustments to stay fair and competitive, and I have only positive things to say. Regarding total compensation, yes Zipline equity is riskier than Google stock grants. I'm not going to share details, but so far it's trending favorably.

I've never worried about compensation details so much, and instead tried to find projects with interesting technical problems that bring intrinsic value to humanity, and a company of people worth spending my life with. My first job out of school, my salary was 40k below other offers I had. It just seemed like the best use of my time and energy. In time it brought me what I can only describe as an embarrassment of riches. My coworkers on the self driving car project at Google were perhaps the most brilliant people I've ever met. To paraphrase Zipline's CEO, they want employees doing the best work of their lives, and it's a marathon rather than a sprint. I have countless examples of the company, its employees, and its management going above and beyond. We're literally saving lives, too.

Re: Google stopping coding competitions

#287

Post by raincole »

eastWestMath wrote: post #243
jcranmer wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some good things about coding competitions, if done well: * Introduction of developers to a core kit of useful algorithms * Practical examples for developers to design algorithms that require adaptation (e.g., how to adapt the bipartite matching algorithm to tripartite) * Training people in how to debug their code--the most useful competitions are the ones where programmers don't always have access to the c…

These are all, of course, things one should learn in an algorithms class.

CodeJam is practically just an extended version of algorithm/data struct class.

Re: Google stopping coding competitions

#288

Post by dredmorbius »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #58

Before jumping on the "Google is now Oracle" bandwagon, curious with anyone with even a little inside baseball knowledge can comment on the reasoning behind this. Because if it's for penny-pinching, "we need to be more efficient" reasons, then yeah, I'm ready to jump on the bandwagon too. But someone else posited it may be more that they want to focus on new skills needed for AI, for example (i.e. "Software 2.0" vs.…

Some earlier possibly-informed speculation from SJvN at The Register a month back:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/27/google_open_source/>

Steven's been around the community a long time and is pretty well connected, so may know more than he'd stated explicitly in that piece.

Re: Google stopping coding competitions

#289

Post by moira11 »

vineyardmike wrote: post #266
sbrother wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that complicates this is that Google (and probably the rest of FAANG but I don’t have experience there) is happy to severely downlevel people versus the positions they could get elsewhere. They also aggressively cut compensation if you live outside of SF/NYC. I’ve done a couple stints as an L4 SWE at Google and it is one of the worst paying places I’ve worked - but that’s because I’m comparing it to larger…

> I’ve done a couple stints as an L4 SWE at Google I’m curious. Does this mean you’ve left Google and returned multiple times at the same level while having better jobs elsewhere? Not to be critical but why? (I ask because I’m considering returning to old places down/equileveled after being laid off somewhere and curious your reasons)

Internships? There are some people who spent every summer in college as Google interns

Re: Google stopping coding competitions

#290

Post by md_ »

vineyardmike wrote: post #265
q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> despite what Google has become, it absolutely defined tech culture. Real talk: What companies are filling this role now? I work at a FAANG, and it just does something to the soul. I can't describe what that thing is... but I routinely look at early-retirement calculators to cope with it.

Google is still loads better than eg Amazon but its days are numbered. I’ve heard msft wlb is improving a lot. I think the next gen of employee- first companies will be wfh centric (or something new and flexible) and 4 day work weeks. People realized slides and food wasn’t as good as free time and flexibility. I expect maxing their employees 401ks and generous cultural WLB. Companies that are advancing technology and…

Fifteen years ago at Microsoft, most people worked ~40 hour weeks, there were shuttles between Seattle and Redmond, a good gym on campus, and (mostly) private offices.

You'd come into work at 9, wander off campus to a nearby restaurant with coworkers for a relaxing lunch at noon (granted, because the food in the cafeterias sucked and cost money), and after a bit of exercise or a nice game of racquetball at the gym, you'd go home at 6. Or if you were single and it was a weeknight, you might stay late in the office watching movies in a conference room and doing a bit of coding.

Of course, fifteen years ago, Google paid more and had a reputation as a place where the really smart people came to grow their careers, whereas Microsoft was sleepier and more middle-aged.

But it had "WLB" in spades.

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