Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 835 posts

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#281

Post by yesenadam »

kevinali1 wrote: post #271
vidarh wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 47, and have never bothered getting a drivers license because I've always lived places where the combination of public transport with fallback to taxis has been good enough. Add on Uber and equivalent, and my need for cars is lower than ever. If I'd lived somewhere a car was needed, I'd have learned. It's not an ideological opposition to cars by any means. Occasionally I consider getting a drivers license, and th…

While I totally agree with this, I think you should still get a drivers license. There's always a very real possibility that you may need to drive a car in some sort of emergency.

> I think you should still get a drivers license

Or learn to drive, at least. I don't think lack of a licence would stop you driving in a real emergency.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#282

Post by mcv »

tduberne wrote: post #253
dagw wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a well-designed city, most people don't really need a car. For me a car isn't for getting around the city or getting to work (I much prefer walking/biking/taking public transport for that), but getting away from the city. To get to my favourite walking trail by the sea or the local ski slope is a 30 minute drive or 1.5+ hours by public transport. Getting to the slightly larger ski resort is a 90 minute drive or al…

This is a classical circular problem of transportation planning: when deciding whether to get a car, and if yes which car, people often use their vacation as a use case. And then, when they got that VW bus to go to the seeside once a year, using it in the city is the logical choice, because it is just lying around. Basically, getting a car is expensive, but once you have it, using it is cheaper (and often faster and…

Car sharing is great for the occasional need for a car. Not Just Bikes calculated that if you need a car only once a week, car sharing (which is really short-term rental) is cheaper than owning your own car.

If you need a car for a longer trip abroad, you probably need a different kind of car rental, but the advantage is that every time you can tailor the kind of car you rent for the purpose you need it for. Get a station car or minivan for vacation, a tiny electric car for a short trip with no luggage, or a van if you need to move some serious stuff.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#283

Post by balfirevic »

bluGill wrote: post #237
maxsilver wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because most people don't have the luxury of choosing those things. - I don't have any meaningful control over where I'm allowed to work - I don't have any meaningful control over where my spouse is allowed to work - I only have a tiny amount of control over where I'm allowed to live (most of it prices us out, despite being above-average income) - even if I do exercise some control, it can be changed or stripped from…

The 15 minute city isn't one you never leave, it is one where basic tasks of life are within 15 minutes. Most people will leave it for work, but they will stop and play within 15 minutes of home. Otherwise you are spot on. If your company moves offices within the same city's MSA they assume you can get there. If they move office to a different city they will pay to move you.

> Most people will leave it for work, but they will stop and play within 15 minutes of home.

Even that assumes you don't have relatively specific hobbies. Which I guess is true for many people, but it's highly unlikely that (for example) my preferred martial arts instructor and my preferred dance instructor are going to be within 15 minutes of where I live.

And of course, your girlfriend/boyfriend, if you don't live together.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#284

Post by secretsatan »

overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I haven't owned a car for at least 15 years since I moved to Switzerland, don't miss it at all. I do occasionally need a car, so I'm a member of a car sharing scheme, they always have cars nearby, I pay a low yearly feee and a low rate per time and kms used, easy to book with an app, probably cost me the same for a year as a parking space for a month.

For an occasional weekend away I might get a car from a regular hire company as they workout cheaper for longer distance.

I suppose I never drove that much before in the UK, never really had to commute as I always try and live within walking distance to work, although I would sometimes drive if it was bad weather, but that was because public transport wasn't really an option for that, the buses were frequently backed up in the rush hour traffic and all would arrive at once instead of being evenly staggered, meaning long waits in the rain where it would have been quicker to walk anyway.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#285

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

vidarh wrote: post #248
overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I'm 47, and have never bothered getting a drivers license because I've always lived places where the combination of public transport with fallback to taxis has been good enough. Add on Uber and equivalent, and my need for cars is lower than ever. If I'd lived somewhere a car was needed, I'd have learned. It's not an ideological opposition to cars by any means. Occasionally I consider getting a drivers license, and th…

I found that not having a driver's license tremendously limited some of my opportunities for recreation and travel. I drive way more when I'm on vacation than I do when I'm home.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#286

Post by prng2021 »

I don't understand how to account for the fact that total vehicle sales in the US has not been dropping over the last 40 years despite stats like this from the article:

"By 1997, 43% of the country’s 16-year-olds had driving licences. But in 2020, the most recent year for which figures are available, the number had fallen to just 25%. Nor is it just teenagers. One in five Americans aged between 20 and 24 does not have a licence, up from just one in 12 in 1983. "

US vehicle sales numbers: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TOTALSA

The article states it's baby boomers that account for increasing traffic on the road. So baby boomers are buying more cars per capita as they age? So much so that it's offsetting these dramatic drops from the younger generations? I find that really hard to believe so maybe I'm missing something. Anyone able to explain?

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#287

Post by taylodl »

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young.

The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car.

Okay, so what about used cars? The average used car price in the U.S. is now over $28K (KBB). That's more than I've ever paid for any new car I've ever bought!

What does that look like for a monthly breakdown? The finance costs for $28K is $525 per month. The average car insurance is $130 per month (US News). The average fuel costs are $100 per month (1,000 miles per month, 35 MPG fuel consumption and a fuel cost of $3.50 per gallon). Finally, the average maintenance costs are $25 per month (Consumer Reports). That cost goes up as the car gets older and doubles after the car is 10 years old, according to Consumer Reports.

Add it all up and that's $780 per month. Now ask yourself, with those costs are you really surprised to hear the young are falling out of love with cars?

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#288

Post by huuhee3 »

I wouldn't miss cars or driving if I went carless. I would miss my parents and other relatives who I simply can't reach with public transport. I would also hate not being able to relax in middle of nature so well during weekends. Proper housing within reach of public transport also tends to be too expensive.

Going carless works mainly for people who have their whole lives around urban areas. For the rest of us cars are a necessity for enjoying life.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#289

Post by chasely »

CalRobert wrote: post #101

It's been a decade-long journey but my wife and I finally got EU citizenship and are picking where to live (Utrecht and Freiburg are the frontrunners) specifically so our child can have a proper, independent childhood, and not the painfully lonely, infantilizing, ones we had in stroad-infested Californian suburbs. We're not young! But I applaud this development.

I have friends that live in Utrecht and it's great. The biggest adjustment for an American, I think, would be getting used to the smaller house sizes. It shifts how you see and value "stuff".

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#290

Post by bluGill »

david-gpu wrote: post #169
pc86 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see many bikes in Amsterdam capable of conveying luggage.

How frequently do people need to carry luggage? The space afforded by a backpack or panniers on a regular bike suffices for most people most of the time. We can all conjure circumstances when it is difficult or inconvenient to use public transit, but deep down we all know most people most of the time are driving their cars alone with minimal cargo and the reason they are driving is because our towns are designed to m…

It is hard to get groceries for a family into panniers. I did it while I was single, but now that there is a family to feed things don't fit. Even if you go shopping daily, a lot of things don't fit at all.

I've used my bike trailer for groceries. You have to be careful that you don't buy more than fits, but it works.

Post reply on HN