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How a heat pump works

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Re: How a heat pump works

#281

Post by oh_sigh »

bruckie wrote: post #170
oh_sigh wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you can get a whole home.humidifier for like $300 to mitigate that issue.

My parents installed a whole home humidifier a couple of years ago. It cost way more than $300 (closer to $2k installed—maybe they just got the wrong one?), and it also costs a lot to operate each month in additional electricity usage. Having a system that doesn't require one sounds much nicer.

I got quotes in that range as well here in boulder, so I installed one myself a week ago in about 2 hours(aprilaire 700 - $310) with no special HVAC knowledge, though I am mechanically and electronically inclined.

I haven't checked the electricity usage but I can't imagine it is much. The system is literally just a small fan and a solenoid valve. Maybe your parents opted for a steam system, whereas mine is called a flow through style.

Re: How a heat pump works

#282

Post by gwbas1c »

robotpony wrote: post #239
gwbas1c wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, they can work anywhere in the continental US. (Assuming you live in the US.) If you're in northern NH, NY, VT, or Maine, you might want to keep your gas system as a backup. (New homes tend to have electric backup, but if you have an older home they just keep your furnace as backup.) I have a 3000 sqft house in MA with a heat pump as my primary heat, and an electric strip as backup. The heat pump goes into…

Around Vancouver our heat pump has performed adequately even down to -15C/5F. This may be related to it being a deep ground loop geothermal setup (vertical instead of horizontal), and the type of building (concrete). We do have a gas fireplace as backup, but have not needed it at the temperatures we see in this corner of the world.

I'm air based.

When I built my house, I called around and it didn't sound like geothermal works very well where I live. I suspect the reason why I was talked out of it is because my yard is very rocky.

Re: How a heat pump works

#283

Post by photon12 »

ryantgtg wrote: post #275
Casteil wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does, but he omits a lot of important considerations that make heat pumps impractical for normal Americans. If he touches on them, it's briefly - if at all, e.g.: - More expensive units, and more expensive to run power wise. It's always difficult to get adoption of new technology that's "better" but more expensive to buy & repair - to the point where RoI may never happen. - Power grid implications during very low/…

Just to soften a few of your confident declarations. > normal Americans Please revise this phrase. America consists of many different climates and it's very unclear what you mean or why you chose the word "normal." > More expensive to run power wise You're comparing new gas HVAC vs new heat pump. However, don't forget about all the folks that are purchasing a heat pump to replace an existing gas unit! For example, my…

I put in a new Mitsubishi Hyper-Heat heat pump last summer. It got down to 17 Farenheit in Seattle this winter. There are no heat strips or supplementary heating arrangements. The heat pump performed well the entire winter.

My energy bills are 1/2 of what I was paying with an electric furnace last year.

Re: How a heat pump works

#284

Post by [deleted] »

ryantgtg wrote: post #275
Casteil wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does, but he omits a lot of important considerations that make heat pumps impractical for normal Americans. If he touches on them, it's briefly - if at all, e.g.: - More expensive units, and more expensive to run power wise. It's always difficult to get adoption of new technology that's "better" but more expensive to buy & repair - to the point where RoI may never happen. - Power grid implications during very low/…

Just to soften a few of your confident declarations. > normal Americans Please revise this phrase. America consists of many different climates and it's very unclear what you mean or why you chose the word "normal." > More expensive to run power wise You're comparing new gas HVAC vs new heat pump. However, don't forget about all the folks that are purchasing a heat pump to replace an existing gas unit! For example, my…

[deleted]

Re: How a heat pump works

#285

Post by nkurz »

rgmerk wrote: post #277
Casteil wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Sure, at least when it's not super cold. Electrical grid may be a "problem that has to be solved" but it's one that carries staggering price tags and will have to be gradually transitioned into over decades. Natural gas will likely still be used as a heat source for many well into the late this century if not longer. - Gas boilers are far simpler units. Less moving parts, simpler electronics, all in all fewer point…

88% of US households already have heat pumps, and 66% of households have centralised heat pump systems - otherwise known as air conditioning. If you can afford to have them just for cooling, you can afford to have them for heating as well; in fact, the capital cost may well be lower if people just used their air conditioning systems to heat as well. The same goes for reliability - we manage to make air conditioning a…

Wow, I was going to doubt your figures, but you seem to be right: https://energyathaas.wordpress.com/2022/08/15/how-many-u-s-h...

I've lived all around the US, and don't think I've ever lived anywhere with central air. Well, that's not quite true: in New Mexico I had a roof mounted swamp cooler, but that's evaporative cooling and not a heat pump. Elsewhere I've occasionally had and used a portable compressor unit, but rarely. I hadn't realized air conditioning was so overwhelmingly prevalent. Based on people I know and associate with, I would have guessed less than half that rate.

Re: How a heat pump works

#287

Post by vladgur »

I live in SF Bay Area 20 minutes south of SF and I don’t have and don’t need A/C, so my HVAC needs are met by a gas furnace that is 10-15 years old at this point but it still works.

Another caveat is our electricity ranges from 30 to 35 cents per KWh and is probably second to Hawaii in terms of cost.

So I do check the cost of operating a Heatpump in the winter and due to high cost of power I am sticking with our gas furnace.

If and when I go solar, I may reconsider, but for now gas is simply cheaper

Re: How a heat pump works

#288

Post by vladgur »

Is there a good calculator where I can enter my cost for units of electricity and gas and it will tell me how much operating a heat pump will save me over a gas furnace

Re: How a heat pump works

#289

Post by rgmerk »

boringg wrote: post #7

What is going on? Is there a global push to get everyone to switch to heat pumps. It seems that there is heat pump content everywhere. Clearly there is a push. I understand that its for climate benefits but it feels very coordinated. edit: didn't realize the attention I would get. Let me add someone answered my question -- a good product market fit and people talking is probably where the push came from. That said HV…

Governments are influenced by what other governments are doing in a variety of ways.

At a basic level, governments are full of people who have an interest in public policy, and they read publications that cover public policy matters from around the world. If the EU brings in a policy that encourages an expansion in heat pump usage, it'll probably get written up in The Economist (and a bunch of more specialised publications), and, guess what, bureaucrats and political staffers in the UK, the US, Canada and so on will read it.

There are also institutions specifically devoted to developing policy advice for national governments, and in the renewable energy space the big one is IRENA. And guess what, they're telling their member governments that, hey, if you want to screw over the Russians, meet your greenhouse targets, and save your citizens a bunch of money, heat pumps are the way to go. And as those things happen to be basically true, national governments are falling over themselves to implement policies to encourage it to happen.

Re: How a heat pump works

#290

Post by rgmerk »

notdarkyet wrote: post #34
boringg wrote: post #7

What is going on? Is there a global push to get everyone to switch to heat pumps. It seems that there is heat pump content everywhere. Clearly there is a push. I understand that its for climate benefits but it feels very coordinated. edit: didn't realize the attention I would get. Let me add someone answered my question -- a good product market fit and people talking is probably where the push came from. That said HV…

I see this as well and it looks to be multiple people buying in to the campaign, especially here on HN. Having lived in a new, high end apartment that had a heat pump for both heating and cooling for 3 years, I am very unimpressed with the tech. Running nonstop, couldn't heat/cool above/below a certain threshold. Electric bill very high. Clogged and broke a lot. If the general radiant heat and cooling from being in l…

Have you considered that you bought the heat pump equivalent of a Ford Edsel, rather than the tech being fundamentally bad?
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