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Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

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Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#281

Post by travisjungroth »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #69
travisjungroth wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

x-risk is existential risk, as in humans get wiped out. Some big ones are meteor impact, nuclear war and disease. The risk of those things ending all of humanity are greatly reduced with a second planet. They're not reduced with a desert colony.

> The risk of those things ending all of humanity are greatly reduced with a second planet. I can imagine a situation where that's true. But right now, for almost any situation, a series of super-bunkers is orders of magnitude cheaper and more effective. A lot of ridiculously destructive things can happen to Earth and it will still be a better place to live than Mars.

Yeah you can come to different conclusions than colonizing Mars being a good strategy for human survival. I'm just answering the "why not the desert?" question.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#282

Post by freddie_mercury »

brnt wrote: post #236
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. I came to the same conclusion after a group of my friends got involved with the local rationalist and EA community, though for a different reason: Their drug habits. They believed themselves to have a better…

This sounds very familiar. The Netherlands is the only country in the world where alcohol consumption correlates positively with education level, and thus alcoholism and associated ills. It's nearly impossible to find people in these circles that think of alcohol as something to be careful with. Alcoholism only happens to 'others'.

> The Netherlands is the only country in the world where alcohol consumption correlates positively with education level

I'm reasonably sure this isn't true. It is also the case in the UK and the US. It is presumably also the case for many other countries, since it is hard to imagine what would make the UK, the US, and the Netherlands somehow unique in the world.

UK: "Higher educational attainment is associated with increased odds of daily alcohol consumption and problem drinking. The relationship is stronger for females than males. Individuals who achieved high test scores in childhood are at a significantly higher risk of abusing alcohol across all dimensions"

https://rmitlibraryvn.rmit.edu.vn/discovery/fulldisplay?vid=...

US: "Greater alcohol consumption is also associated with having a higher educational level and having a higher income [...] In the college sample, educational achievement is positively associated with drinking"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4838609/

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#283

Post by PartiallyTyped »

ketzo wrote: post #87
willcipriano wrote: post #5

Back in my day effective altruism was mainly about finding charities that aren't essentially scams (way harder than it looks). Scene has apparently moved on to other things since I followed it a decade or so ago.

This is a super-simplified summary, but I think it's generally accurate. The basic thesis of EA is "it is your duty to improve/save as many human lives as you can." At some point, a lot of EAs realized that there were many more future humans than present humans. Once you widen your scope in that way, you start realizing that long-term, catastrophic risks (climate change, nuclear disaster, misaligned AI) would affect…

I find it odd that longtermists dont see that the obvious solution to long term issues is throwing more brains at the problems which implies doing good now.

Maybe i am missing part of the argument?

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#284

Post by svc0 »

Seems like the issue here is not EA or a rationalist world view. The issue seems to be the lack of compartmentalization of the professional and personal lives, a lack of procedural boundaries around social conduct, and a general lack of maturity. This doesn't seem particularly rational...

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#285

Post by benj111 »

jfengel wrote: post #12

The worst thing about being smart is how easy it is to talk yourself into believing just about anything. After all, you make really good arguments. EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. Once that happens, it can easily spiral out from there. Peopl…

It isn't about being smart. Anyone can convince themselves of anything, eg flat earthers.

>I already know that my money is more effective in the hands of a food bank than giving people food myself

In certain situations. Unless you're generally in favour of communism. Most people just skip out the barter entirely and give money, generally in exchange for things. It isn't clear to me why charity in general should be different.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#286

Post by watwut »

naasking wrote: post #269
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. I came to the same conclusion after a group of my friends got involved with the local rationalist and EA community, though for a different reason: Their drug habits. They believed themselves to have a better…

> I intentionally drifted away from that group around that time, so I don’t know what happened to them This isn't a convincing story that they were wrong if you don't actually know what happened to them. It just looks like you're showing a bit of that hubris yourself, in assuming they went off a cliff.

OP disassociate with them when issues caught up with them. Even if their fixed their lifes after, this point stands.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#287

Post by antisceptic »

Sexual harassment is one facet of a what seems to be a power problem. The power in the group derives from reputation and many are willing to go to extreme lengths to scavenge as much of it as they can.

How many times are we going to repeat Zimbardo's experiment?

Let's not get bogged down with the details of EA, which on paper seems well intentioned. It could be a book club where a sexual harassment problem emerges, if there are power discrepancies within the group.

We also need to stop acting surprised whenever there are influential and powerful people in such a group (SBF was mentioned) and something like this emerges. The powerful within the group are effectively laundering money in exchange for sexual capital. Hookup culture, which has a wider audience than many would expect, would cynically view a group like EA as a lead generator for sex. It works until at least one person starts to call foul and the shaky foundation upon which the house of cards is built is exposed.

Come to think of it, in the current zeitgeist, if you're being Machiavellian about this sort of thing, then it might be a good strategy to quietly endure the shenanigans and collect information on such a group in order to gain leverage. The payout can be substantial if it captures enough media attention.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#288

Post by benj111 »

throwanem wrote: post #259
Acutulus wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking for the US, yes indeed. Loperamide is technically an opioid and available OTC, though that's rarely a sought after compound unless one is in dire straits. Codeine is available with a pharmacist's approval alone in my state. So while it may not technically OTC by that definition (or is, I don't know how OTC is defined), it can be had without a prescription by visiting a participating pharmacy and simply reque…

"A pharmacist's approval" is a prescription, just one that happens to be written by the same person who fills it. So no, not OTC, which specifically refers to medications you can get without a prescription.

I suspect this is location specific though. In the UK my migraine medication was available over the counter, I still had to have a discussion with the pharmacist every time I bought it. Conversely when ever I've needed an actual prescription medication, in an emergency or whatever, that has always had to go through my doctor to get the prescription sorted.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#289

Post by ben_w »

senderista wrote: post #215
gnramires wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an EA (in the sense that I believe in the importance of some general principles of the movement, like trying to do the most good, and use data when available -- I don't participate in any organization directly). What I think is the most promising feature of EA is openness to criticism and trying to improve the movement itself. I think SBF was a wake up call and many people in the movement should take note that t…

What’s wrong with fraud if it has positive expected utility? At least if you’re an avowed act utilitarian like SBF.

Even with a cold calculations of utility, fraud has the same effect as defection in the Prisoner's Dilemma, and reality is an IPD not a single round, and the winning strategy for that is tit-for-tat.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#290

Post by benj111 »

nwiswell wrote: post #246
rejectfinite wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has codeine OTC... you assume. Everyone on the internet is american. Its funny. ahha

Not that unreasonable a guess. It's very late in Europe right now (currently 4 AM GMT, perhaps 2 AM when that was posted), and you know YC is an American company... right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30210378

Why is the ownership structure of YC important? You know how the internet works right?

For better or worse, 'american' is the defacto standard on the internet, but please remember that only a small percentage of the global population is USian the in all probability the person you're speaking to isn't from the US.

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