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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#281

Post by diablerouge »

kderbyma wrote: post #175
pibechorro wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, people living it dont brag about it, gotta keep the poser johnny come lately herds away from ruining it. I have been living and crusing on a sailboat, mosty off anchor rent free when I can, surrounded by many other sailors who rather not see it ruined by Instagram. The key here is the counter culture starts and ends in your heart. Get out and break out of the matrix.

honestly. how many months of rent was that boat? You are privileged ag

It seems you are out of touch with the liveaboard boat market. It's totally feasible to pick up a boat suitable for coastal cruising for a couple of people for $2,000. Budget another $2,000 for upgrades and you're good to go.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#282

Post by mulmen »

Mezzie wrote: post #202
Pigalowda wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right. The US kinda feels like Asimov’s foundation, especially in the west coast. Fewer people acting like adults and more people chasing dopamine and letting entropy do its damage. Maybe I just need to stop taking public transportation and walking the city. Perhaps suburbs feel further from the precipice.

I've been wondering lately if it's down to the lack of agency on the part of average people. Like I see that America is in decline and has a decent chance of falling apart in my lifetime (I'm 34), but what exactly am I going to do about it? Nobody in charge cares, they're too busy fiddling. If you can't stop the decline and have to live it, why not try to enjoy what you have while you have it?

Worry less about America and more about your city, especially your neighborhood.

Democracy does work. People do make a difference every day. Don’t let the internet get you down.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#283

Post by anon223345 »

ArnoVW wrote: post #43
adamcharnock wrote: post #20

I'm pretty sure I've been existing in a number of counter-cultures for the last decade or two. These have been either linked to my identity or physical location, I couldn't have properly experienced them through consuming media on the subject. Certainly all required an active choice and/or lifestyle change on my part. Maybe people mean something else by counter-culture, but here are examples from my life: - Freelanci…

My understanding of counterculture is that it 'counters'. I.e. it inherently searches to change or influence the dominant culture. Your examples do show that we are (thankfully) not a monoculture. But they place themselves outside of our culture, instead trying to influence. A good example of counter culture is BLM, Extinction Rebellion or Occupy Wallstreet. Only thing: those are movements, not cultures. And they are…

BLM is literally on flags, in schools, it’s not counter culture

The AP even has it on tests for college credit

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#285

Post by standardUser »

adamcharnock wrote: post #20

I'm pretty sure I've been existing in a number of counter-cultures for the last decade or two. These have been either linked to my identity or physical location, I couldn't have properly experienced them through consuming media on the subject. Certainly all required an active choice and/or lifestyle change on my part. Maybe people mean something else by counter-culture, but here are examples from my life: - Freelanci…

This is a great counterpoint, but you're missing the other half of the argument. The realm of subcultures that do not require one to change their material lives/location is far vaster than it has ever been. Perhaps the author is unaware of the seemingly endless array of niche blogs and forums and servers that cater to far-flung populations of people engaging in all manner of counterculture, some of it radically "counter", that did not and could not exist without the internet.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#286

Post by anon223345 »

RangerScience wrote: post #278
n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>BLM >LGBT >counter culture Endlessly supported by literally every news outlet, major tech company, big 5 sports league, F1000, university, and at least half of the political class. You’re not counter to any major institution, lmao. You’re not the resistance

That’s… factually incorrect? Unless you don’t consider Fox News a news outlet, among other examples. Which (snarkily) I guess is fair.

I think their point was that BLM has flipped from counter cutler to mainline culture

It’s on flags at schools, supported by government, roads are named after it, they have an enormous foundation with staff, and it’s even in college course curriculum

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#287

Post by cbeach »

A major factor here is that social networks rely on advertisers interspersing their content in between user-generated content. For business reasons, the networks can't have their ads placed near anything controversial.

So the networks systematically demote controversial content.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#288

Post by seydor »

maegul wrote: post #41
seydor wrote: post #2

The moment in which techies realize that they became the mainstream, and counterculture is elsewhere.

In my time hanging out on Mastodon, I feel like I’m seeing this play out. Many people who openly identify as “tech” people asking for new features, more or less complaining about the resistance to such new features and arguing that the cultural resistance doesn’t make sense. Now these tech people tend to also be new to mastodon. But they also seem pretty oblivious to the fact that they are the mainstream which many o…

Even if Mastodon had such currents beforehand, the influx of twitter users must have muddied the waters

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#289

Post by account42 »

n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #64
codingdave wrote: post #31

Am I being overly simplistic to say that the answer is that countercultures are found in real life, and not on social media?

Not at all. Silicon Valley tech companies crushed all dissenting opinions online to a comical level. The only place you’re allowed to have a dissenting opinion is in real life

You can find dissenting opinions online. The major hubs are of course the places that the mainstream will claim are full of terrorists and other miscreants, e.g. the *chans and now the fediverse instances that more mainstream ones refuse to federate with. But there are many smaller spaces online, not run by big tech and small enough to fall under the radar of the mob. HN itself does still tolerate plenty alternate opinions.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#290

Post by api »

xwolfi wrote: post #273
Mezzie wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering lately if it's down to the lack of agency on the part of average people. Like I see that America is in decline and has a decent chance of falling apart in my lifetime (I'm 34), but what exactly am I going to do about it? Nobody in charge cares, they're too busy fiddling. If you can't stop the decline and have to live it, why not try to enjoy what you have while you have it?

These decline stories are universal, and probably no more true than 400 years ago: I am French and live in Hong Kong, do you think decline is not what everyone is talking about in BOTH places ? What is a place not in decline in the eyes of its inhabitants ? It says more about how we view the past than how the present is: we remember only the glorious good times, and forget nobody could read 200 years ago, or nobody c…

I have felt like a contrarian for a while for not thinking the US (or the West generally) is in decline.

Here’s a random example:

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/nj3z7ieVrCcgyQkq6myNZ.jpg

Doesn’t look like decline to me. I could cite dozens more examples and not just around technology.

Russia is a good example of a nation in decline: hemorrhaging young people, horrible corruption, cynicism, delusional leaders, and the use of imperial war and dramatic ideology to try to paper over it all.

We do have a lot of dumb problems like a homelessness epidemic that are due more to lack of political will than inability to fix them.

Some are also due to the high priority we place on individual freedom. We’d rather have freedom from detention and to move about than round up the homeless and force them into institutions. We’d rather have shootings than remove the individual right to bear arms. We’d rather have strong property rights than eminent domain people to build infrastructure. Etc.

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