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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#281

Post by csomar »

dang wrote: post #216
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

You should write a longer piece about your coffee shop! and the process behind it. If you do, you should submit it to HN - and if you do that you should email us (hn@ycombinator.com) because we might put it in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ).

I wonder if all these laid off engineers will end up opening small businesses and using their skill to cut one or two employees. Maybe we'll finally get a push toward real automation.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#282

Post by paxys »

My personal rule is – if I didn't tip for something 5 years ago I don't tip for it today. Restaurants, taxis and food delivery make the cut, as do most personal services like cleaning and haircuts. Self checkouts, grab and go items, food trucks, fast food, online shopping, convenience stores, grocery stores and lots more all get $0 extra from me with absolutely no guilt. Oh and the default 20/25/30% options all come way down as well. If others want to get socially shamed into it, well that's fine by me.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#283

Post by hgsgm »

q845712 wrote: post #139
godelski wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping at best is a form of bribery and at worst a feudal practice of wealth transfer. I tip because it is the social norm (and bribery: don't want my food messed with), but I think we can also acknowledge that this practice is weird and has a shaky history.

I think tipping at its very best is an opportunity to give a stranger a small gift. I recognize your points -- sometimes it feels like an obligated payment and probably in nearly all cases the capital owning class could and/or should contribute more, but i think you're excluding some optional perspectives. Sometimes I just want to help someone have a nice day by giving them something they didn't expect, like a genero…

Why so you give preferential treatment to those specific jobs?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#284

Post by taberiand »

dumpsterdiver wrote: post #253
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

> Also, some customers seem to think that the screen froze at the very end because it didn't ask for a tip. Haha, I think that's totally reasonable of them. As a consumer I would appreciate a notification informing me that I couldn't tip, no matter how much I thought they deserved it. Edit: I wanted to add that there are a lot of places we're not expected to tip at whose employees deserve it just as much as the ones…

Maybe a section on the payment page for adding a tip with a single radio button already selected, titled "No tip required, we pay our servers well"

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#285

Post by ot »

tptacek wrote: post #201
ot wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those same arguments apply to several other professions where it is not customary to tip. The reality is that tips are expected only for the lower social/economic classes, where it is acceptable that the price for labor is set based on the whims of the customer instead of being pre-agreed (which, personally, I find degrading). Right-leaning people like it because it creates a power dynamic. Left-leaning people like i…

It's true that you can run any industry without tipping, but that's not really saying anything interesting, because you also demonstrably can run industries with tipping. I don't like tipping for the power dynamic or because I'm "helping the working class"; I just get the logic of it, and am fine playing along.

You're fine playing along because you're on the winning side of the deal.

Say you were a software contractor, would you be ok with working for a customer based only on an "expected price range" with a 4x spread, over which the customer has complete unilateral discretion, decided only after the work has been completed?

If your first instinct is "that's different", I'd like to know how.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#286

Post by dbalatero »

syngrog66 wrote: post #65

Not exactly tipping but very similar: Panera became very annoying in recent years by hassling me every time I ordered at the cashier about whether I wanted to "round up" to ostensibly donate to some charity or other. Here's my take: I might already be doing charity work or donations elsewhere, and I'm at my limit. And I went to Panera for food and a place to sit a while. If Panera's ownership or rich executives want…

I believe this is a corporate tax game they are partially playing, as they can write off your charitable donation as their tax benefit. (Never round up, just donate directly to charities you choose.)

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#287

Post by alluro2 »

tptacek wrote: post #76
godelski wrote: post #30

One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping. It has always been "because servers are being paid less than minimum wage." Which the issue with that is that that varies state by state. Most west coast states do not have a separate tipped wage[0]. So the question is, why do we tip at all on the west coast[1]? Worse, it seems to be expanding and increasing in size[2] The followup argument is often "well t…

Tipping is a system in which customers explicitly, optionally, and variably share some of the cost of labor. It has the features of allowing individual patrons to modulate the labor subsidy they provide, based on their current price sensitivity, the value they place on warm fuzzies (don't dismiss this!), the relationship they want to build with the business, and the service they perceive themselves to be getting. You…

Friendliness or a general level of service is in a lot of industries considered a competitive factor that contributes to increased customer lifetime value through repeat sales, loyalty etc.

Why should the restaurants be any different? If I like the food and the service, I'll want to come again - the restaurant increases their earnings that way and both I and the business are happy.

The question then again comes down to how is that an incentive for the workers. The obvious answer is that their pay should be linked to the earnings of the business. The fact that it is not shows the fundamental problem with current state of capitalism, where the primary goal is to exploit the work of the workers below your financial level (as a business owner) and increase your wealth based on the ever-increasing difference between costs / wages and revenue.

The incentive of business is in conflict with incentive of workers, and the interest of customers - business will be motivated to use the workers willing to work for less, count tips towards salaries, but also use lower quality/cost ingredients etc.

A system where the worker salaries would be linked to revenue, with some nuance of course, would ensure top quality / service / products for the customers, fair reward and aligned incentives for the workers, and access to top tier employees (since they would want to work for businesses with higher revenue), happy customers and increased revenue to the business.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#288

Post by ggm »

bilsbie wrote: post #150
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

We had a no tipping restaurant we used to go to and the service was reliably terrible. Hopefully the rating system will work but I’d say you do need some kind of system. On the other hand Chick-fil-A is able to make their employees act friendly. I wonder how they do it. Finally I do wish you’d accept cash just for people that want to preserve their privacy.

This is kind of anecdata. We've all had terrible service, and some of us live in economies which are no tip or no routine tip.

At scale, I continue to believe there isn't a strong relationship between tipping and service, as much as between salary and service or service culture and service.

Transition periods are always complex. If tipping was verboten there would still be a cohort complaining about it for years, about both income side, and service quality side issues.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#289

Post by davidgay »

crtified wrote: post #40

Is this a thing in countries other than the USA?

It used to be. For instance, France passed a law in 1987 to include an automatic tip on all bills (12-15%), i.e., switched from optional to automatic tipping.

AIUI, French restaurant menus still say "service compris" (service included).

And, FWIW, the top hit about this when I searched for articles on this in French is an article where the hotel-industry association is thinking about getting tipping reintroduced... (https://www.ouest-france.fr/europe/france/restauration-bient...)

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#290

Post by makestuff »

bilsbie wrote: post #150
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

We had a no tipping restaurant we used to go to and the service was reliably terrible. Hopefully the rating system will work but I’d say you do need some kind of system. On the other hand Chick-fil-A is able to make their employees act friendly. I wonder how they do it. Finally I do wish you’d accept cash just for people that want to preserve their privacy.

Chick-fil-a usually makes franchise owners be hands on in the Restaurant, and you cannot own like 20 of them. I think most people own one. At least where I grew up they consistently paid the highest of any fast food place and I am pretty sure they offered tuition reimbursement. The other main benefit they have is the whole closed on Sunday’s thing which makes scheduling more favorable since you know you won’t have to work on sundays.
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