Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats • Hacker News Board

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#281

Post by unsupp0rted » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:36 PM UTC

the_only_law wrote: post #271

not1ofU wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you check the comment history it is unlikely that anyone here wants to listen to what this person has to say, let alone provide them with work. I have skimmed through a few of the comments and IMO there is nothing in there that warrents the downvotes / dead comments, which appear to not even get replies (tut tut HN, breaking your own "rules" again) I do wish this person well however, I hope luck smiles down on the…

I’m not sure why it’s getting praised. The guy hijacked a thread discussing drug addiction so he could get on a personal soapbox and drone on about his own problems while trying to diminish others.

It seems relevant to me in a discussion of a vaccine to prevent people inadvertently getting addicted to drugs and having their lives spiral out of control for someone to bring up what it's like when you're not addicted to drugs and have your life spiral out of control.

GP mentioned that it's expected he'd be addicted to drugs because then the system would be able to categorize and address his needs better.

It's not a 1:1 match for the article topic, but I come to HN for the comments, especially ones that engage my curiosity, like GP's did.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#282

Post by elil17 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:39 PM UTC

Seems like there is a lot of unwarranted criticism of this, and I think it is from a misunderstanding of how it would be used. This is meant to be a treatment targeted to people who are addicted to opioids. It would prevent overdose deaths due to heroin and pills which have unexpectedly large amounts of fentanyl (e.g. due to mistakes made when the supplier cut the drug). If taken in combination with proposed heroin and oxy vaccines, it could prevent many opioids from being effective - that could be a tool someone uses to help stop themselves from relapsing in the future. Someone taking this would have to way the benefits against the risks of not being able to take fentanyl when needed (e.g. for surgery).

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#283

Post by kodah » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:40 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #265

dlkf wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? This isn’t how it works. Few people, if any, want to “check out.” What happens is that people are exposed to opiods via one of two channels (they are prescribed painkillers, or they party with someone who has acquired them) and they quickly get hooked because these drugs are cripplingly addictive. So the only “why” questions we have to…

I think it's > 1) Why do people take opiods the first time that the GP is getting at. While doctors over-prescribing opiates is definitely a thing (esp. in the US), I'm not convinced that many people get hooked on opiates due to partying. I think it's more commonly: "Used as an escape from a life that is unmanagable for some reason" That's not conspirational. There's good evidence to show that life circumstances have…

I think it'd be more likely that someone discovers opioids mask their pain while using them for legitimate purposes. After that is when gaming the doctor, street buys, and finally substitutions take place.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#284

Post by dotnet00 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:41 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #265

dlkf wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? This isn’t how it works. Few people, if any, want to “check out.” What happens is that people are exposed to opiods via one of two channels (they are prescribed painkillers, or they party with someone who has acquired them) and they quickly get hooked because these drugs are cripplingly addictive. So the only “why” questions we have to…

I think it's > 1) Why do people take opiods the first time that the GP is getting at. While doctors over-prescribing opiates is definitely a thing (esp. in the US), I'm not convinced that many people get hooked on opiates due to partying. I think it's more commonly: "Used as an escape from a life that is unmanagable for some reason" That's not conspirational. There's good evidence to show that life circumstances have…

There are plenty of other fairly common reasons that don't involve simple escapism, with young people it's just as likely to be simple peer pressure or experimentation. It also doesn't help that it's common to treat drug highs as some sort of enlightening experience that needs to be experienced to understand.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#285

Post by GeekyBear » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #270

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

> A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them This is true for drugs in general, but not many people are stupid enough to take opiods recreationally.

Perhaps we should start being honest about which recreational drugs present the greatest dangers of addiction and harm.

At least when I was in school, we were still teaching kids that pot was just as bad as opioids. You can't expect kids to find out that you're lying about the dangers of pot, while expecting them to take the warning about opioids seriously.

I know the UK did research a decade ago to rank which drugs were the most harmful for the drug user and for how the drug user treated those around them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11660210

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#286

Post by amw » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:51 PM UTC

dlkf wrote: post #256

shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? This isn’t how it works. Few people, if any, want to “check out.” What happens is that people are exposed to opiods via one of two channels (they are prescribed painkillers, or they party with someone who has acquired them) and they quickly get hooked because these drugs are cripplingly addictive. So the only “why” questions we have to…

"investigating systems in their totality rather than focusing on isolated interactions within them" is not inherently conspiratorial. It's far weirder to suggest that "more people want to party for no particular reason" or "more doctors prescribe pain meds for no particular reason" than it is to suggest reasons that might contribute (say, "more people are suffering from chronic pain than before as the disparity between productivity and wage has widened" or "pharmaceutical companies are naturally incentivized to sell as much of their product as possible and those incentives may occasionally drive morally dubious decisions").

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#287

Post by ngai_aku » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:52 PM UTC

mrcwinn wrote: post #126

Someone in my family died from fentanyl at 26. I knew him since he was a little kid. We don't know if they were aware of the presence of that substance, but they certainly were in a higher risk situation. They had a decent life and a loving, if imperfect, family. They just happened to fall into a rougher crowd in middle school and, despite more than a decade of support and help and money, never really broke out of it…

> they were excited to go to some convention in Minneapolis that was all about mushrooms and psychedelics. What struck me was how excited they were, how into that community they were. I couldn't relate. I thought to myself, isn't there anything in your life more exciting than this?

Are you always this judgmental of others’ interests? Do you have these feelings towards someone excited about e.g. a new video game or a programming conference?

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#288

Post by the_only_law » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:53 PM UTC

not1ofU wrote: post #279

the_only_law wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why it’s getting praised. The guy hijacked a thread discussing drug addiction so he could get on a personal soapbox and drone on about his own problems while trying to diminish others.

It was in response to this comment: "The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY." They provided an answer to "why?". I think thats fair. Maybe I am wrong. I checked further on the comment history, it appears to me someone has it out for this person, as the other topics are not soapboxing at all, and most or dead without comments. Care to discuss further?

Upon second reading, I misinterpreted GP and I don’t think they had any bad intent. So apologies to them for that.

As for the shadowbanning I’m not sure either. It’s not particularly new and like you kinda mentioned they don’t really say anything egregious, at least that I saw. Some accounts seems to be shadow banned at creations and the user doesn’t seem super active, but I’m not sure how all that works under the hood. I guess it’s even possible the GP comment was already dead, and was later vouched.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#289

Post by dotnet00 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:54 PM UTC

cstejerean wrote: post #161

shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

I think quite a lot of people ended up addicted to opioids against their will, by starting with being over prescribed highly addictive pain medication which then ended up making them addicted to opioids, and then later on ended up trying to feed that habit from the streets once the easy access to pain meds dried up. https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2022/20220303-settlement-purdue-... Personally I've been avoiding oxyconti…

Yep I've seen similar in various countries with a parent. They were prescribed large doses of some opioid pain killers and despite them being aware of the risk of addiction and thus being very careful about dosing (often skipping doses if the pain was tolerable and asking doctors to minimize the dose), in the end they still had a difficult time coming off them. They didn't end up trying to feed that habit from elsewhere, but it was still a lesson in how quickly a dependency can be formed.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#290

Post by kodah » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:54 PM UTC

patientplatypus wrote: post #142

shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

I'm homeless and living in the Tenderloin in San Francisco. People here want you to - Be in a gang (or a prostitute, thief, ex-con and so forth) - Be on drugs (or in rehab for drugs) - Have a mental illness (so you can go to therapy) - Be disabled - Find religion There isn't a position for "I ran out of money and my family wouldn't support me, and at some point finding web development work became too hard as the tech…

I can't guarantee that I can help you find a new job or master skills but I'm willing to try. My email is kodah@pull.dev.