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“Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

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Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#281

Post by kamaal »

as-j wrote: post #179
in_cahoots wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would you go in this environment? Most of the top-name companies have had layoffs themselves, or at the very least are at the hiring freeze stage of the layoff routine.

You’ll laugh but bear with me, Meta recruiter just reached out to me this week, so even parts of Facebook are hiring, and my relevant skill set. Of course I don’t care about VR goggles, but you just had large layoffs, why would I work for you? (Plus ok Zuck is ruining your core business, but that aside) Layoffs hurt inside and outside too.

Hire to fire is fairly common.

If a layoff is inevitable, It is common in many set ups for managers to hire people new people whom they would want to let go instead of their top dogs who've been rocking their projects for years.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#282

Post by Apocryphon »

danielfoster wrote: post #111
idopmstuff wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with this strategy is that it causes the wrong people to leave. If you're a top performer, you're going to feel like a 10% pay cut is very unfair, and you're going to be able to get another job elsewhere fairly easily, even in this environment. If you're not performing particularly well, it probably doesn't feel as unreasonable, and even if you don't like it, it's tough to leave. When done correct…

I agreed. The example given, a very specialized manufacturer, does not represent the tech industry. Probably these employees recognized it would be difficult to be hired elsewhere and this is why they were so willing to put up with a 10% pay cut.

With all of these layoffs and freezes, how easy is it to be hired in tech?

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#283

Post by I_AM_A_SMURF »

msbarnett wrote: post #97
idopmstuff wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with this strategy is that it causes the wrong people to leave. If you're a top performer, you're going to feel like a 10% pay cut is very unfair, and you're going to be able to get another job elsewhere fairly easily, even in this environment. If you're not performing particularly well, it probably doesn't feel as unreasonable, and even if you don't like it, it's tough to leave. When done correct…

If you’re a top performer you bail as soon as there are layoffs anyways. I certainly do. It’s rarely a sign that anything good is in your future, they’re often performed poorly, and the work environment post-layoffs is incredibly bleak and disheartening. If you have options there’s no good reason to stay.

bail off to... where? Every single big tech has done layoff except Apple. Which fair you could go to Apple but then you have to deal with Cupertino and inflated bay area housing.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#284

Post by I_AM_A_SMURF »

indymike wrote: post #236
tarr11 wrote: post #31

The professor recommends across the board pay cuts as an alternative to layoffs. > One thing that Lincoln Electric, which is a famous manufacturer of arc welding equipment, did well is instead of laying off 10% of their workforce, they had everybody take a 10% wage cut except for senior management, which took a larger cut. So instead of giving 100% of the pain to 10% of the people, they give 100% of the people 10% of…

> The professor recommends across the board pay cuts as an alternative to layoffs. This is the fourth bout of "layoffitis" I've lived through in the tech industry, and I think this professor is really nailing it. > Seems like it would also increase stress and encourage top performers to seek new opportunities. You don't have to cut pay for key performers. You can offer retention incentives to key people. You can cut…

But the thing is... in tech usually it doesn't work that way. A 15yr tenured L6 is most likely making less than a newly hired L6. Why would you fire the one with experience? I've seen so many of these coming form MS and Google's layoffs.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#285

Post by seanmcdirmid »

metadat wrote: post #274
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If meta is hiring for VR, they are probably taking advantage of the recent Microsoft layoff anyways to pick up talent.

Do you mean the Microsoft VR layoffs literally announced only 1 or 2 days ago? That's giving BigCo a lot of credit in the agility department, skirting over the edge into conspiracy theory territory.

If they were still hiring for VR, why would the recruiters wait? It’s not like they are very busy.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#286

Post by I_AM_A_SMURF »

jurassic wrote: post #118
btown wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market shifting to profitability over growth was the motive, absolutely. But Elon's decimation of Twitter was the means and opportunity. And I think that copycatting those means of executing layoffs - 7am email notifications for 20-year employees, minimal consultation with lower-level management about who should be retained - will have significant ramifications on the morale of the remaining workforce. Perhaps so…

I can't wait for Elon's Twitter to fully crater so brainless Wall Street people will stop trying to emulate his approach to cost reduction. It's obvious to everyone paying attention that Elon destroyed that company in the first 30 days and it's only a matter of time until bankruptcy. It blows my mind that anybody could see his approach as an example to emulate.

Unfortunately it could be that Twitter survives long enough to be handed off to a saner CEO which restores some sanity. I don't know how many non-tech people would notice if Twitter doesn't ship anything for a year.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#287

Post by I_AM_A_SMURF »

hinkley wrote: post #113
oxfordmale wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The layoffs without consultation with the lower levels will indeed leave a bitter taste. It gives the impression that hard work isn't awarded if the top management level has no visibility over your work. This will result in departments spending much more time selling their work, rather than actually doing the work. In the end, this is counterproductive for a company.

If you’ve never been in a layoff where you lost someone you trust as much as you trust yourself, it’s a terrible experience that may come to define your time at the company. If they can lay “Dave” off they can lay any of us off. What if I’m next? Or god what if you’re next? I do not want your job and they’ll make me do it if you’re gone. I have to be very careful in meetings now, save 95% of my political capital for…

Yep. My previous company laid off so many people that were _clearly_ better than me. In multiple rounds too, it was horrible. I couldn't not stop looking behind my back I had to find a different job.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#288

Post by I_AM_A_SMURF »

mrj wrote: post #220
rsj_hn wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "payment" can be taken in the form of higher share price, share buybacks, dividends, future dividends, etc. It does not have take one specific form or another. Despite the fact that Google doesn't pay dividends, it's not a charity. Investors purchase shares of Google in order to get a return, and they have a choice between buying Google or a mortgage bond or ATT, etc. Now for growth companies like Google, they ar…

Well, so in theory they could have used some of the billions they have on hand to start a dividend to prop up the stock price while making their own decisions about staffing. This narrative that the market forced them to do layoffs feels flimsy when they have so much money, doesn't it? They had other options.

I want to note that Google indeed did that. G bought 56bn dollars of its own stock last year (which is equivalent to a 56bn dividend).

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#289

Post by as-j »

kamaal wrote: post #281
as-j wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll laugh but bear with me, Meta recruiter just reached out to me this week, so even parts of Facebook are hiring, and my relevant skill set. Of course I don’t care about VR goggles, but you just had large layoffs, why would I work for you? (Plus ok Zuck is ruining your core business, but that aside) Layoffs hurt inside and outside too.

Hire to fire is fairly common. If a layoff is inevitable, It is common in many set ups for managers to hire people new people whom they would want to let go instead of their top dogs who've been rocking their projects for years.

Nah, this role has been open to long, survived recruiting cuts, and it appears even layoffs. I wonder if FB will get so desperate they even stop trying to downlevel.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#290

Post by as-j »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #249
as-j wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll laugh but bear with me, Meta recruiter just reached out to me this week, so even parts of Facebook are hiring, and my relevant skill set. Of course I don’t care about VR goggles, but you just had large layoffs, why would I work for you? (Plus ok Zuck is ruining your core business, but that aside) Layoffs hurt inside and outside too.

If meta is hiring for VR, they are probably taking advantage of the recent Microsoft layoff anyways to pick up talent.

This role's been open for a while, probably just recruiting getting re-organized after being cut to the bone.
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