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Quitting the rat race

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Re: Quitting the rat race

#281

Post by strken »

csomar wrote: post #209
bradly wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I told my family and friends my plan to leave my great FAANG job to retire early very few of the responses were positive. It was really disheartening after working so hard for so many years towards that goal.

You are the status quo. By leaving, you are breaking their new (since FAANGs are a recent thing) social structure. They’d definitively not support you.

I think it's more likely that he's a success story, and it's disheartening to see your example of success quit and "stop doing anything."

This is of course unfair to him and he shouldn't be beholden to other people using him as an exemplar, nor is it likely that he's done nothing since retiring, but it's an understandable reaction.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#282

Post by nirvdrum »

anonreeeeplor wrote: post #265
bumby wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“No one is going to talk me into…” is shorthand for “I’m not open to any other ideas that don’t align with my preconceived notions.” It’s not terribly productive on a site whose guidelines try to foster an open and curious conversation.

I have co founded a $100+ million valuation startup. I am not in the top 50%. I am not in the top 80%. I am in the very very very top 0.5%. If you have worked in most tech jobs, at large or medium sized companies, you have not met people like me. I took risks. Major ones. I left comfort.

I've met plenty of people that took huge risks and wound up incredibly depressed. Many (most?) startup founders pour everything they have into that company. They give up money, time, health, relationships, other opportunities, etc. Most don't make it. Others will have a success on paper and then waste another year as a middle manager in a big company to get that earnout. Of course, that gets into the debate about whether they were working on the right thing at the right time -- survivorship bias is really strong on this topic.

I'm happy for your success. I assume it was earned with hard work. I hope it works out. A lot of startups with high valuations are feeling the crunch right now. Many of those will peter out and the founders will join the rest of those depressed by their life choices and/or feeling like victims of circumstance. There's far more to success than forgoing comfort and there's far more to happiness than success.

For my part, I co-founded and built two companies for ~4.5 years each: one in hardware and one in SaaS. The SaaS one was in the second batch of TechStars Boston. I had some success and I'm happy I did it. I learned a lot and it was generally fun. But, I trashed my health and wouldn't recommend others do it under the guise of happiness.

Nowadays I do industrial research on language VMs. I get paid very well. The work is gratifying. I have time for my kids, I'm learning things on the job. And I work with great people. I'll probably start another company some day because I like the variety of work and the thrill of the chase. My startup experience gave me a broad network and introduced new opportunities, but I'm only marginally better off compensation-wise than peers that worked a more conventional career. I'm almost certainly behind in terms of lifetime earnings. Many of them are impressed that I struck out and built multiple companies, but that has no real bearing on my happiness.

I'm not sure what being in the top 0.5% means without knowing the metric. If you love starting companies, have at it, but I can think of more challenging paths if you're looking to reach your full potential. Some of the smartest people I've ever met built the foundational technologies that allow SaaS to even exist while working for decades at the same company. I don't know how happy they are, but I know how impactful they've been.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#283

Post by angarg12 »

dinobones wrote: post #12

I am in my mid 20s. I have about $200k saved and I think about quitting everyday, even though it would probably be disastrous for my career. I look up and I see colleagues in their 40s-50s. 20-30 years of experience in the industry, with the performance of their RSUs they probably easily have $2m+ net worth. I really don't understand why they don't quit. Just a naive example: Buy a cheap house ($250k) and live off of…

I'm a senior eng at FAANG nearing my 40s, so according to your napkin math I should be a millionaire.

Of course is not that simple. I won't bore you with my life history, but I spent most of my career living paycheck to paycheck, and only got a high paying job recently. With the double wammy of moving to the US and stock plummeting, my life savings are paltry. I'm still renting and I project it'll take me 2-3 years to save for a down payment.

In fact I'm confident that if you graduated 3 years ago and have been working in tech in the US, you'll likely have more wealth than me.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#284

Post by JSavageOne »

_8j50 wrote: post #233

Been there, done that. "The rat race" is a very reductionist and naive take. What I found out is, wherever you go, there you are. You must really be at peace with yourself for a change in environment to bring you lasting peace. Mountains, beaches, deserts, forests are all amazing. But you do get used to them and then miss the cool city life and convenience. But wherever you go, you bring your problems with you. The d…

There's some truth to this, but environment does make a difference. The problem with this advice is that it seems to imply that moving doesn't make a difference - when the reality is that some people are just better suited to different environments. A nature lover is just going to be happier living somewhere blessed with beautiful nature than in NYC. The challenge of course is distinguishing which problems are external vs internal, and sometimes you need to make the external change to discern the difference.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#285

Post by unforeseen9991 »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #244
SeattleAltruist wrote: post #99

Kudos! May I suggest ikiagi, the overlap between what you are good at (vocation), what you love (passion), what makes adequate money (profession), and what the world needs (mission). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai . The Japanese call it "the reason for getting out of bed in the morning." Best of luck with your continued search for balance in life.

Ikigai as how some western authors try to portray and promote it isn't really a thing in Japanese culture according to the economist. https://www.economist.com/asia/2022/10/27/what-japan-makes-o...

Thanks for this. It's funny how stemmed from some british dude who essentially made it up and people bought into it.

I was also surprised by all the other terms I seen floating around that are a similar thing

Re: Quitting the rat race

#286

Post by angarg12 »

What I don't like about the discourse on the "rat race" online is that people only discuss two extremes: either you work a high paid, highly stressing job that you hate, or you retire. I feel dumb saying this, but there are many combinations of salary, stress and meaning (to choose three axis) as companies out there.

If instead of "rat race vs not" we frame it as a tradeoff between possibly conflicting attributes, which may vary person to person and at different points in life, I think we'd have a more fruitful conversation.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#287

Post by sgtnoodle »

gymbeaux wrote: post #214
scruple wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you do manage to find 2 hours to yourself, it's typically at the end of the day and you're utterly, completely exhausted. I've found that, with young kids in the mix, the best thing I can do with my hour-ish at the end of a long day is read, or draw, or just spend some quiet time with my spouse. Anything else requires mental energy that I simply don't have. Even the video games that I play at the end of the a…

I don't even have a wife and kids yet, but I already find many of the video games I enjoyed as a teenager to be too demanding. Fallout New Vegas was an awesome game, and I remember spending virtually my entire summer vacation one year playing through Fallout 3. I gave New Vegas another go recently and it just feels like work. It sucks. Like I just want to get through the game so it will be done.

Indeed, I resemble that remark. I've been on paternity leave for the last couple months with kid 2. I have 10 minute slivers of down time throughout the day, and I can sacrifice sleep for a few hours of focus at night. I've been playing through L.A. Noire just to cross it off my bucket list, and I shamelessly refer to walkthroughs on every case. It's an alternative to watching a TV show in the evening.

Typically when I play a game I like to explore every nook and cranny, trying to find secrets and glitches and stuff. Lately it just gives me anxiety to start a new game when I know it will be on deck for years. I've been playing through Tomb Raider since 2019 and I'm not finished yet... I think I need to consciously change my play style and expectations, and just barrel through main story lines.

I went over to a younger coworker's apartment last night to play video games, which is a very rare activity for me. Left 4 Dead was a lot of fun a decade ago. He loaded up whatever the latest call of duty zombie horde shooting game is, and it was more stressful than fun. I have an interesting anecdote about stress and Tomb Raider. In 2020 my heart AV nerves all stopped working. My effective heart rate got down to 20-30bpm, and wouldn't increase with demand. A few days before I ended up in the hospital, I tried playing Tomb Raider just to see what would happen. After about 5 minutes my peripheral vision started to black out and I felt like I was having a panic attack!

Re: Quitting the rat race

#288

Post by xvilka »

simplotek wrote: post #139
haswell wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age can have a lot to do with it, depending on your path through life. The adage is generally that wisdom comes with age, and there are some things in life that are difficult to internalize until you’ve gone though the experience. To me, it’s just another way of saying “the more life experience I gain…”.

> To me, it’s just another of saying “the more life experience I gain…”. I believe that if you never were in a position where your job was a soul-crushig source of misery and despair, you've been lucky to live a sheltered life. Most people don't have the privilege of picking and choosing outstanding jobs with decent work/life balance, nice colleagues, reasonable deadlines and considerate stakeholders. Most people hav…

> Most people have rent/mortgage to pay, kids to feed, and unfavourable odds of improving their life with low risk and impact on your life.

I would go further - majority of people on this planet live painful and miserable life.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#289

Post by supportlocal4h »

BaseballPhysics wrote: post #67
BizarreByte wrote: post #8

It’s a short piece, but it resonates with me, specifically this part: > I’m earning the most money I’ve ever made and yet I’m the least fulfilled I’ve ever been. I’m making the most I’ve ever made and I’ve never been less happy and more depressed. I despise being a cog in a huge corporate machine, it’s like the job was designed to be as unappealing as possible. At the same time I can’t get over the fact that I have i…

Bluntly, every person I know who's expressed these kinds of sentiments is guilty of the same mistake: externalizing their happiness. They inevitably move, only to find the new place they're in sucks, just in different ways. Or they find another job, but just discover more things they hate there. Or they find a new partner, only to discover a new set of annoyances. The same psychology leads people to think they'll be…

These are very good points to ponder seriously.

You can change your circumstances in another way. Reduce your expenses despite all the money that's coming in. Then find something important to you. It feels like it should be something altruistic. Funnel money to it. But also funnel your time and energy.

Buy some property in Detroit and build a safe house there. Fly in once a month to be involved, actually forming concrete, or roofing, or whatever. Then be involved in forming the management team, and be the board chair or something.

Or found an IT version of a farmer's market. Whatever that means.

Design and build a cylindrical windmill that stinks, but can be installed on balconies to harvest $5 of energy per month. Then invite people who know what they're doing to teach you how to get that up to $20/month and cost only $50 to build. Refine it until you can distribute kits.

Launch a wheelchair repair service. Coach a 4H club.

I know recent events have made altruism look bad, but I'm not advocating... well, I guess maybe I am. I never really looked into it, so I don't know. But I know it feels kinda good to shovel a neighbor's driveway every so often.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#290

Post by Existenceblinks »

namuol wrote: post #78

I’m pretty sure the romanticizing of the idea of “quitting the rat race” is one of the largest motivators to play the game. If you want to quit the rat race you’re going to have to sacrifice a lot, unless you checks notes “[work] at a top tier investment bank as a software engineer”.

I'm like please put me in the race track and give me $100k reward because my slow life makes me and family hungry .. yet still forced to race in a terrible track.
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