Tried several gui alternative because docker desktop offer nothing and ends up enjoying lazydocker
https://github.com/jesseduffield/lazydocker
Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years
281–290 of 334 posts
Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years
#282I remember everyone had written Docker off for dead when they announced their updated pricing plans, but they really made perfect sense, and I am happy to see the company recover. A large chunk of the tech world today relies on their products, but they were making next to nothing for it. It is definitely worth it for large companies to throw a few dollars their way considering the massive amount of value they are get…
I suspect the initial negative take on the license change was correct, and this is the dying gasp of the company. It's just taking longer than expected to replace Docker Desktop. But I am seeing a lot of progress on Podman and Rancher and a few others, and some of the larger tech companies are also building in-house replacements. A lot of the people who had to scramble to find a replacement are not happy about it. In…
Since getting into the world of startups and strategies, one thing I have realised is that there is nothing out there is the world that is truly free. If you are using a free product today, chance are you are paying it somewhere else in their eco system. Docker desktop used to be free. Lot of products are free initially, it could be because they need feedback, or they are trojan horse for another product in their ecosystem, or they want to win the market share and once competitor is decimated they can rake in money.
So, never chase free stuff if you are an enterprise. Chase quality, value, operational efficiency.
Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s a bit different. The business pricing is 24 dollars a month, so with 150 employees you’re looking at 270,000 dollars a year for a MacOS desktop application. Nobody seriously cares about docker hub. Nobody cares about the SSO, or the access management, or SCIM. Nobody uses anything but the app that makes it simple to run stuff in MacOS. That’s not worth 270k a year.
Is your math right?
Not at all, which serves me right for commenting when I should have been sleeping.
Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Can't speak for anyone else, but my company is migrating away from Docker Desktop to Rancher in order to save money. Their Rancher Desktop offering seems to be promising: https://rancherdesktop.io/ Much the same way how Podman Desktop seems nice: https://podman-desktop.io/ Though personally, Docker has always been a safe bet (both the desktop software, as well as the container runtime), I think I'll stick with it f…
Why there are needs to use docker GUIs? Docker compose and lazy docker is all I need for managing over 80 docker containers , both dev and production https://github.com/jesseduffield/lazydocker
> Why there are needs to use docker GUIs?
Because to some people using GUIs are more approachable and in some case objectively better (e.g. telling the state of things at a glance and efficiently using screen real estate, with graphs and whatnot), whereas the ways they're worse in might not dealbreakers (e.g. lack of automation, given that there can still be APIs or access to the underlying cluster anyways).
For an example of this, see pieces of software that one can use to manage orchestrators (essentially one step further than just running individual containers, but a good example of how UIs can be useful):
- Portainer: https://www.portainer.io/
- Rancher: https://www.rancher.com/products/rancher
Some orchestrators even include dashboards on their own:
- Kubernetes dashboard: https://kubernetes.io/docs/tasks/access-application-cluster/...
- Nomad web UI: https://developer.hashicorp.com/nomad/tutorials/web-ui
And some of that applies to running regular containers and managing them locally: for many it can be useful to be able to just click around to discover more details about a container, as well as what's using storage and so on. Thankfully the CLIs of Docker and competing runtimes are pretty well structured as they are, but I guess it's just a different type of UX.
At the end of the day, what works for you, or even what you find comfortable to use, might not be the case for someone else and vice versa. It's definitely nice to have that choice in the first place, and to know the various options out there.
Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm surprised by this as well, but maybe it was the HN bias that made that impression. My company received the memo from Docker to upgrade to paid version, and I helped many to move on to Podman. However there were teams for which getting a Docker Desktop license was easier than the Podman move. I am sure there are many more companies that can easily afford the convenience of Docker Desktop for a trivial fee.
At work, I developed step by step instructions for using Docker on WSL2, the normal CLI way. People liked it, but figured they liked the GUI better. They also argued that they may as well stick to the GUI because there was a team somewhere else in the company that really insisted they need Docker Desktop, so the company will be buying licenses anyway. (I was already working on those instructions when the pricing chan…
nftables are now supported so one hassle less, bump up the kernel. I also use Docker in WSL2 to keep Windows clean. I love this setup.
Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
Amen. This is why I don’t want to sell to developers. “Here’s a solution that will save you hours every month, it’s only $9 p/m.” “$9 p/m???” - asked a developer choking on their avocado toast “That’s the same price as Spotify! Meh, I can develop the same thing myself in 2 weeks.” 2 months later. "Well, it's almost done. At least I won't be wasting $9 p/m."
Its not devs buying these tools in a company context, and devs are not on universally high salaries. I made the point before that these little costs rack up quickly, I can speak to my costs: Gitlab: 19/m Docker: 24/m Slack: 12.5/m Copilot: 19/m Office: 12.5/m Tailscale: 15/m oslash: 6/mo pagerduty: 41/m Jira/Confluence: 26.25/m Calendly: 16/m Bonusly: 4.5/m Snyk: 98/m Figma: 42/m Lens: 20/m Postman: 29/m Sourcegraph:…
Also you're hostage due to vendor lock, and you'll have to pay even if they raised a price or you had a bad quarter.
That's huge risk, liability and often productivity gains are greatly overstated.
Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is what drove me away from docker in the first place - only to find there’s little alternative today. Honestly, the poor reliability of docker on any platform, for so many years, has tainted it in my mind and I will change in a heartbeat if something better comes along.
Interesting... My experience has been pretty much exactly the opposite, Docker just works flawlessly and it's the alternatives like podman and systemd that's caused me headaches and countless hours of wasted time.
I did hit some kind of networking bug on a Linux server recently (in the past 2 weeks) which required a restart of the Docker daemon, and that is my classic personal experience. We went all-in on Docker Swarm several years ago, and we ended up having to do full server reboots on what seemed like a weekly basis. And I know I'm not alone in having loads of problems on MacOS - although I must admit it seems to have been a lot better recently.
Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
I rather give $5/month to the guy developing the open source alternative to whatever you want to sell. The FOSS version does not depend on trapping me into an infinite subscriptiom treadmill.
Out of curiosity, are there any OSS projects you’re donating $5/month to?
Yes: baserow and Taiga.
Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
What gets me about this is the math doesn't make any sense. Docker charges $10/developer/month. Those developers are paid $150k+/yr, fully loaded to the company (insurance, taxes, accounting, etc) is probably double that, but call it $250k/yr to be nice. You take 3 developers and have them spend a quarter on replacing Docker Desktop, that's nearly $200k in developer costs spent replacing a tool that's gonna cost your…
This article from 2013 might give an indication on why some people choose FOSS even when they can afford the non-FOSS solutions: The licensing. My God, the licensing. It's not so much the money, as the infernal, mind-bending tax code level complexity involved in making sure all your software is properly licensed: determining what 'level' and 'edition' you are licensed at, who is licensed to use what, which servers ar…
Docket licensing is significantly simpler than that codinghorror outrage article.
Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, I'll do the math: $250k/yr/developer, so for 1 quarter, that's $62.5k, 3 developers for one quarter is $187.5k. Docker costs $10/mo, or $120/yr, so for 1000 developers, that's $120k/yr, or a payoff time of 1.5 years, assuming nobody ever has to touch anything ever again. Let's say our solution requires 1 developer-quarter per year to maintain - bugfixes, upgrades, deployments, etc. That's $62.5k/yr. That pushes o…
A big mistake with this math is that globally developers are not paid anywhere close to 250k/yr even fully loaded for the company. In my country in Europe it's closer to 60k/yr fully loaded. There is cheaper. Also most companies aren't gonna build something from scratch, they are going to use something else that is also available. That being said this type of exercise is good to show because many managers do not do i…
120€ is still significantly less than 60k€… It’s the price of a few lunches.