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Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

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Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#281

Post by coffeebeqn »

Animats wrote: post #72

"Binance has said it holds more than $60bn in assets, enough to honour withdrawals. The company’s disclosures do not include its liabilities, which makes it difficult to ascertain its financial health." Possibilities: 1) They're insolvent. Liabilities exceed assets. (Like FTX.) 2) Their accounting is so screwed up they can't produce a balance sheet. (Like FTX). 3) They have a large number of interconnected corporate…

They also have the potentially very dangerous BNB. If some of their assets are in that company coin to smooth the waves then they could have a crash very similar to FTT

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#282

Post by [deleted] »

Lerc wrote: post #255
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> downvoted for suggesting a company might be solvent The comment said they are solvent. Not that they might be. Given the present facts and circumstances, that’s unfounded. (EDIT: Never mind.)

No they didn't. The "5)" was indicating a further option. That is very much a suggestion and not a statement of fact.

[deleted]

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#283

Post by mtmail »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #277
jefftk wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prager Metis for international, Armanino for US: https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/11/meet-the-metave...

Prager Metis and Armanino worked with FTX, but I can’t find anything showing they completed an audit. (Far from blameless. Both seem riddled with issues [1].) [1] https://www.ibtimes.com/crypto-auditors-under-fire-ftx-meltd...

OP quoted "have completed requirements to pass" so that might be the start of the audit, not passing.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#284

Post by chx »

ineedasername wrote: post #275
chx wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are so close All current crypto"currencies" which use transaction fees (which is practically all of them) are negative sum games and thus are scams. This is so simple and people waste billions on not understanding it.

If they’re negative sum then so are traditional payment processors that charge transaction fees, which is not an argument I’d be prepared to make. Unless you see something fundamentally different about the nature of those fees in crypto?

It's because you can transfer money without paying fees, those fees are for convenience. You can not transfer crypto without paying fees.

Also, notably most banks will do SEPA transfers for free. There's nothing inherent in money which would make the action of moving it force giving a fraction of it to some other entity.

Indeed, the only disagreement I am aware of is whether the scam being run by multiple entities ("miners") is a significant difference to a Ponzi and so it's a new kind of scam (suggested name: "Nakamoto scheme") or the difference is aking to an LCD vs CRT TV, nothing significant and it's just a Ponzi. But the fact it is a scam is an indisputable and rather simple mathematical fact.

To quote Preston Byrne who coined the phrase Nakamoto scheme:

> The Nakamoto Scheme is an automated hybrid of a Ponzi scheme and a pyramid scheme which has, from the perspective of operating a criminal enterprise, the strengths of both and (currently) the weaknesses of neither.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#285

Post by anovikov »

jefftk wrote: post #250
Animats wrote: post #72

"Binance has said it holds more than $60bn in assets, enough to honour withdrawals. The company’s disclosures do not include its liabilities, which makes it difficult to ascertain its financial health." Possibilities: 1) They're insolvent. Liabilities exceed assets. (Like FTX.) 2) Their accounting is so screwed up they can't produce a balance sheet. (Like FTX). 3) They have a large number of interconnected corporate…

> Full GAAP audit or we all assume you're broke. FTX passed a GAAP audit and was still broke. Safer just to take custody of your coins while your still can. 2021-08-27: " Both FTX and FTX.US have completed requirements to pass the US Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) audit " https://blockworks.co/news/ftx-joins-coinbase-kraken-with-us...

What's the value of coins if with Binance down, most certainly Bitcoin will be down too as it was propped up with fake printed USDT, which will collapse as well, and with them evaporating, every other coin will follow? If Binance falls, all crypto will vanish. And good riddance.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#286

Post by coffeebeqn »

jefftk wrote: post #273
fabian2k wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTX had many parts, did that audit actually cover all of them or was that just for a subset of companies?

It probably didn't cover all of them: all of the announcements I can find from the time just talk about FTX US and International. But if you're trying to decide whether to keep your money in another exchange, and they talk about how they have passed a GAAP audit "did the audit actually cover everything I care about" is still a live question.

Basically if you want to keep your money in a regulated institution, don’t use a crypto exchange. You can be your own bank or just sell the crypto and buy some funds where you know some basic facts about where your money is and who can touch it.

I can’t imagine why anyone would risk keeping their assets in binance. Do you know basic facts like which jurisdiction in the world they are even based in? Optimistically it sounds like a 50% chance they are actually fine and 50% chance they’re on the path of FTX. Big risk with no reward other than minor convenience

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#287

Post by 29athrowaway »

ineedasername wrote: post #274
29athrowaway wrote: post #266

Not your keys, not your coins

That outlook has severe limitations though. Specifically that self-custody has very high barriers to actually using those coins without having them pass through some more centralized system at some point. There’s no cash equivalent (as yet) that is as frictionless as actual cash. Maybe the next gen of tech tech that grows from these ashes will address that problem more directly, and get more traction than prior attem…

You just use the exchange when you want to trade not for long-term storage.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#288

Post by eftychis »

jefftk wrote: post #250
Animats wrote: post #72

"Binance has said it holds more than $60bn in assets, enough to honour withdrawals. The company’s disclosures do not include its liabilities, which makes it difficult to ascertain its financial health." Possibilities: 1) They're insolvent. Liabilities exceed assets. (Like FTX.) 2) Their accounting is so screwed up they can't produce a balance sheet. (Like FTX). 3) They have a large number of interconnected corporate…

> Full GAAP audit or we all assume you're broke. FTX passed a GAAP audit and was still broke. Safer just to take custody of your coins while your still can. 2021-08-27: " Both FTX and FTX.US have completed requirements to pass the US Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) audit " https://blockworks.co/news/ftx-joins-coinbase-kraken-with-us...

I don't think FTX actually applied or passed GAAP. From the filings it is clear they couldn't have. They barely have records of their liabilities, and definitely not of their assets. I am not even touching co-mingling of different classes of accounts. The statement you are referencing is another lie to customers and investors.

I know they employed a "Decentraland" sketchy "auditor." But that's it. It is like employing me to do your haircut -- you are 100% screwed and not getting a haircut, but some hair will be cut.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#289

Post by actionablefiber »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #279
Animats wrote: post #72

"Binance has said it holds more than $60bn in assets, enough to honour withdrawals. The company’s disclosures do not include its liabilities, which makes it difficult to ascertain its financial health." Possibilities: 1) They're insolvent. Liabilities exceed assets. (Like FTX.) 2) Their accounting is so screwed up they can't produce a balance sheet. (Like FTX). 3) They have a large number of interconnected corporate…

For me, it's the ruthlessness of dumping all the FTT tokens they had to crash FTX to buy it (which went pear shape once they saw FTX's books) makes me think that they're probably not in a strong of a position as they say they are. We see this all the time. Exchanges saying they're strong and assets are safe until suddenly a few hours later they're not.

There are some possibilities. Binance could have just done so knowing that FTX's demise would concentrate their own market share. They also could have (sensibly) not wanted toxic assets on their books - FTX's book value was/is deeply negative so holding tokens correlated to a basically insolvent entity and/or buying them is just a bad trade that hurts their financial position.

It's ruthless but I don't think it says anything about their finances. Their play made sense whether they were strong or weak.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#290

Post by lottin »

tbrownaw wrote: post #194
dougSF70 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The seem to be banks and exchanges. NYSE and Nasdaq are exchanges but don't hold customer funds they execute trades and that is it. These crypto exchanges are more like banks...and that is the problem. Until banks allow crypto accounts and connection to exchanges this will keep happening.

Something closer to a retail brokerage, maybe?

They're like an exchange and a brokerage firm rolled into one.
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