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Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

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Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#281

Post by kergonath »

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #180
johndhi wrote: post #162

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

It is crazy. If the EU just wants to fully outright ban advertising - then do it - but set a standard and stick to it.

> If the EU just wants to fully outright ban advertising

Come on, don’t be obtuse. The problem is not advertising, the problem is tracking and using user data without consent. The fact that they do that for advertising is irrelevant. They would have the same issue if they were doing it for any other reason.

> set a standard and stick to it

That’s what they did. It’s called the GDPR. One can argue that enforcement was insufficient, but the standard has not changed.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#282

Post by Macha »

Krasnol wrote: post #277
Bombthecat wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't believe this is the top comment...

I unfortunately expected just that. Protection of personal data is not something many in this bubble like to see since it threatens their products business model.

Indeed, the law is only confusing if what you're trying to understand from it is "How do I track my users for my own revenue model, who would not agree to be tracked if it was as easy to decline and they understood the options?" and don't want to accept the answer is "You don't"

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#283

Post by BlueTemplar »

riskable wrote: post #95
RajT88 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook will still be around in 5 years. The question is whether it will be relevant. People make the comparison to MySpace, because it's the most comparable service - Facebook de-throned it as the king of social media. And incidentally, MySpace is still around. They survived the de-throning by pivoting, which is inevitably what Facebook will do. I think we've seen the groundwork for it already.

Facebook has already seen the writing on the wall and has been pivoting to VR. Probably not the best pivot but it is what it is. They clearly want to be the Apple/iPhone of VR. The part that confuses me is that they can't seem to decide whether or not to make consumer VR stuff or business VR/AR stuff. They're completely different markets. Consumers want games and apps/experiences that are fun and/or exciting (even if…

It's pretty bad as a customer too :

When I bought the CV1 Oculus Rift, it listed Windows 7 as being compatible, and no requirements of a Facebook account.

Now the Oculus software has been "upgraded" by dropping compatibility with Win7, and the support for using it without a Facebook account will end on 2023-01-01.

Where I suspect this violates EU consumer laws, is that Oculus/Facebook/Meta doesn't provide me with an option to keep running old versions of Oculus software (offline if need be) that work on Win7 and without a Facebook account, along with apps I bought from or outside the Oculus Store !

Also, not much advance warning (if any??) between starting to warn about the end of Win7 support on the box and dropping Win7 support - we got plenty of time with the mandatory Facebook account requirement, though I haven't checked whether it was the case on the boxes ?

And the less said about Oculus promise of CV1 Rift Linux support that is still nowhere to be seen 6 years after release, the better. And this would have reduced developer friction a lot !

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#284

Post by senko »

johndhi wrote: post #162

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

> a law was put in place 5 years ago that said [...] with some very vague and general language [...].

> Then, some random guy says he doesn't think Facebook's interpretation is right, a court agrees, and [the law changes].

You've just described how US legal system works (case law - https://legaldictionary.net/case-law/)

> just going to Facebook, having a real conversation about what they're doing, then talked about it with ethics professionals and researchers and tried to draft a forward-looking law that will make the whole system better

You've just described how US lobbying works.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#285

Post by kergonath »

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #204
wnoise wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tracked advertising is not all advertising.

I didn't say it was. However, defining what is tracking and what is not is also an issue. Let's say facebook runs an ad on its platform to my website with a url of site.com/fbad. Then I can see how many people clicked on the ad on facebook and how many people converted on that webpage. There are people on this site who will tell you, and FULLY believe that that is TOO much tracking and is morally wrong.

Incrementing a counter is not tracking. I don’t know where you’d find someone saying otherwise. However, keeping records associating the fact that something was clicked with personal identifying information, such as an IP address or a unique identifier, is tracking, and you need to ask for consent. What is and is not acceptable use of data related to a person is defined in the regulation.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#286

Post by matheusmoreira »

johndhi wrote: post #162

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

On the contrary, these laws are proving to be very efficient at stopping Facebook's abusive surveillance. The Facebook problem should be smashed. Hopefully Gooogle and the other Big Techs are next in line.

All they have to do is stop collecting people's personal information, all their problems would go away. People don't want their surveillance capitalism abuse anymore. No one is interested in watching Facebook "discuss" the matter with regulators in order to massage it into a "compliant" form. We want Facebook's unconditional surrender on the matter, cease and desist all surveillance activities. We don't care how much money it will cost them, what they are doing is simply not acceptable and it has to stop.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#287

Post by sunderw »

Fargren wrote: post #210
JacobSeated wrote: post #161

Facebook should just start charging users that don't consent to tracking for targeted advertising. Etc. Problem solved, and we, the shareholders, will hopefully be happy too. It's been truly shit to own Facebook stock the last year.. Let's end this now and get back to writing the growth story. Please.

I'm not totally sure that's allowed under GDPR. I know you can't say "consent to data collection or you can't use the website" [1]. So I doubt "consent to data collection OR PAY or you can't use the website" is acceptable. [1] unless the data is needed for the website to work

I've seen this at least twice on the french websites jeuxvideo.com and marmiton.org. I may have seen more but do not remember.

It think it's a gray area right now though.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#288

Post by johndhi »

Zachsa999 wrote: post #261
johndhi wrote: post #162

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

Are you a Facebook employee?

No. Never have been. Nor do I work in ad tech. I'm an attorney who interprets laws, including gdpr, for a tech company that does not engage in targeted advertising.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#289

Post by kergonath »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #253
dangrossman wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds fairly accurate to me. This is what killed the US-EU Privacy Shield program, twice. That was the government's attempt at creating a way for US companies like Facebook to legally process data of EU citizens under GDPR. It's been struck down by the EU courts, due to our federal government's spy powers and the CLOUD Act, that invalidate any claims US companies make about protecting personal data in their posse…

I was referring to comparing the US intel operation to the Stasi.

It was hyperbole. But it is not a conspiracy theory if it is true. All this has been documented well enough.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#290

Post by soperj »

coder543 wrote: post #256
soperj wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not when you're talking about a technological lead. They didn't even make these displays or come up with the technology for them, they just paid for the exclusive right for them for a certain period of time.

It’s a distinction without difference as far as the market is concerned. Your question was just flamebait. If other manufacturers saw how important this would be, and if Apple had zero involvement with the display development as you claim, then those other manufacturers should have bought exclusivity first. Instead, I’m sure Apple was involved in the design and development. It’s not a coincidence that the display jus…

> Either way, nothing useful can come from this topic diversion.

Then why do you keep commenting on it?

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