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Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

kite.com

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Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#281

Post by throwaway2037 »

jonas21 wrote: post #176
arcturus17 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loads of devs I’ve spoken to, from junior to principal level, absolutely love Github Copilot though. Don’t know who is paying it for them, nor if Kite was significantly worse, but I think that at least Copilot has a brilliant future ahead of it.

Some well-known devs like Guido van Rossum and Andrej Karpathy are big fans as well [1]. [1] https://youtu.be/cdiD-9MMpb0?t=8723

Please remember that Guido van Rossum is now employed by Microsoft. Yes, I am a fan of Guido van Rossum and his work, but I am always suspicious when famous people recommend their own company's products. It feels like excellent marketing/PR that is hard to resist.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#282

Post by capitalsigma »

PraetorianGourd wrote: post #279
capitalsigma wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because developers want to be able to hack on their own tools: fix bugs, add features, whatever. Graphics designers do not have the skills to hack on their own tools, so there isn't a huge population of them sitting around going "damn, I wish I had feature X -- I know, I'll build my own editor and open source it!"

Some do. Probably over-represented on HN. Others want to work their hours and spend the rest of their time with non-technical hobbies, or with family, or literally anything else. If that isn’t you, no big deal. But we should not paint all developers with the same brush.

Enough developers want to hack on their own tools that the market is smaller than you would naively expect, counting the number of developers and how many tools they each use. It's a bit like asking "how come we're having so much trouble selling our extended warranty to professional mechanics, even though professional drivers buy extended warranties all the time?"

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#283

Post by acchow »

nikkwong wrote: post #278
javajosh wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it seems fair to me to spend real money on Jetbrain's tools, if you like them. It is strange how reluctant programmers are to spend on tools even though they are, as a rule, quite willing to let themselves be paid handsomely for their services. Yet graphic designers pay for Adobe's tools. Who can read this riddle?

> if you like them. Important caveat here. My only exposure to JetBrains had been through Intellij which was thoroughly unpleasant around 2012-2013. That impression has left me forever sour towards them. Surprised to hear people say that it could be a step up from VSCode. It looks like "Fleet" is their VSCode competitor? I'm not sure if the homepage does a good job at communicating how this improves over of VSCode. F…

Strange. In my experience, IntelliJ from 2012 is a superior experience to VSCode today.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#284

Post by fastball »

LASR wrote: post #235

> Our diagnosis is that individual developers do not pay for tools. I know this first hand, building a developer tool startup and failing to reach any level of revenue. In the end, the tech was bought out by a larger company to recover a fraction of our VC investment. The challenge is that when you're building software for developers, they already know how it must work. It's like trying to sell magic tricks to magici…

Anecdote for me:

I tried Kite a few years ago but didn't feel like I was getting much value out of it and never payed for it.

In contrast, I started paying for Github Copilot as soon as it was no longer free.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#285

Post by ehsankia »

nerdponx wrote: post #192
dmarlow wrote: post #110

I'm confused. "we were 10+ years too early to market, i.e. the tech is not ready yet." "Our diagnosis is that individual developers do not pay for tools." "We built the most-advanced AI for helping developers, but it fell short of the 10× improvement required to break through because today’s state of the art for ML on code is not good enough." Sounds like you know why people didn't pay for it. If it truly did make pe…

Sounds to me like blaming everybody other than themselves. However major props for open sourcing it when the company failed.

Exactly, they started a decade earlier and got outdone despite the massive head start. Then again maybe without the big data they had no hope of succeeding, but they should've mentioned that specifically instead of giving a bunch of contradicting statements.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#286

Post by cerved »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #258
LASR wrote: post #235

> Our diagnosis is that individual developers do not pay for tools. I know this first hand, building a developer tool startup and failing to reach any level of revenue. In the end, the tech was bought out by a larger company to recover a fraction of our VC investment. The challenge is that when you're building software for developers, they already know how it must work. It's like trying to sell magic tricks to magici…

I pay for tools independently if they are affordable and I can use them commercially (even at work, even if my employer does not pay for it). I pay for JetBrains yearly and am at the lowest renew cost as a result, so theres no incentive for me to stop paying them yearly. I also saw that you can get Visual Studio Pro for $45 a month, which is really decent considering you get a professional grade IDE all to yourself.…

No post body was provided.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#287

Post by realusername »

acchow wrote: post #283
nikkwong wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you like them. Important caveat here. My only exposure to JetBrains had been through Intellij which was thoroughly unpleasant around 2012-2013. That impression has left me forever sour towards them. Surprised to hear people say that it could be a step up from VSCode. It looks like "Fleet" is their VSCode competitor? I'm not sure if the homepage does a good job at communicating how this improves over of VSCode. F…

Strange. In my experience, IntelliJ from 2012 is a superior experience to VSCode today.

To each their own, I would still continue to use VSCode even if IntelliJ's current version was free.

Even Jetbrain themselves realised this since they are creating a VSCode clone called Fleet.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#288

Post by dopamean »

mythz wrote: post #267
irrational wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a web developer. My company pays for JetBrains IntelliJ for me. And I love it. But, if I had to pay for it out of my own pocket, I’d use VS Code instead. I’ve used both and IntelliJ is superior to VS Code, but not to such an extent that I would pay my own money for it. But I’m more than happy to have my company buy it for me.

JetBrains IDE's is the most notable exception of dev tools I personally pay for, insane value and productivity makes it a no-brainer purchase given its instant ROI from time saved. Life's too short to not maximize your productivity for a few $'s.

JetBrains IDEs are the only dev tool I pay for as well. I write kotlin professionally and for fun and the Intellij + Kotlin experience is the most I've enjoyed writing code since my early days learning Ruby.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#289

Post by nikkwong »

acchow wrote: post #283
nikkwong wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you like them. Important caveat here. My only exposure to JetBrains had been through Intellij which was thoroughly unpleasant around 2012-2013. That impression has left me forever sour towards them. Surprised to hear people say that it could be a step up from VSCode. It looks like "Fleet" is their VSCode competitor? I'm not sure if the homepage does a good job at communicating how this improves over of VSCode. F…

Strange. In my experience, IntelliJ from 2012 is a superior experience to VSCode today.

Granted; I was very junior then--and I think my issues may have been mostly related to the finnicky nature of java tooling and dependencies rather than the IDE itself.
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