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How to sell tickets fairly

barnabas.me

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Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#281

Post by makestuff »

swores wrote: post #261
JKCalhoun wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I see the entertainment industry in two tiers. There are the mega-stars like Taylor Swift, etc. that occupy one tier, and then the majority off smaller artists, up and coming artists that represent the lower, if you like, strata. Perhaps you are describing, and perhaps the author are tackling the upper strata. For myself, I swore off big venues decades ago. If I am unable to set my beer behind the monitor spe…

> Connecting artists and venue owners with a web portal, allowing ticket sales to fans via the same site shouldn't be heavy lifting for a lot of the readers on HN. The tricky part isn't making the website, it's persuading enough people on both sides of the equation that your business is a better option compared to alternatives. And despite the situation with Ticketmaster it's not like they're literally the only tool…

Yeah pretty much any big tech company could spin up a team to launch a ticket purchasing website in a year or so that could handle the traffic.

For example, Amazon always loves adding benefits to prime, if they thought they could break into the ticket market they would do it in a heartbeat. Same with Spotify or Apple. If these massive corps cannot break into the market then why would some startup be able to?

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#282

Post by maerF0x0 »

bo1024 wrote: post #18

I think this is great if your goal is to clear the market at a competitive price. But a lot of artists want to sell tickets below market price. That makes the problem a lot harder. The obvious thing to do is have a lottery, but it's hard to stop people from using multiple identities (especially scalpers).

> But a lot of artists want to sell tickets below market price.

IMO artists should stop trying to sell below market and instead move the market by increasing supply. TSwift tickets wouldnt sell for $1000 a ticket if she played 3 nights... It's also a contradictory goal to what basically everyone else in the industry cares about (eg vendors, venues, crews etc).

Perhaps for super super stars like tswift she'd literally end up playing 24/7/365 ... But for a lot of artists additional nights would really change the curve.

I'm curious how alternatives might effect elasticity, something like simulcast at theaters for less than live in person?

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#283

Post by maerF0x0 »

tromp wrote: post #174
cortesoft wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the solution. Strong authentication into a lottery. I really don't like using a lottery, because it assumes that everyone who wants to go to a particular concert has the same level of desire to go. A lot of people might just kind of want to go, while for others going is the most important thing in the world. With a lottery system, each of those people have an equal chance of getting to go. It seems unfair t…

> I want a system that allocates tickets to the people who want to go the most. I can't think of a better way to measure desire than willingness to spend a long time waiting in line. So perhaps sell the more expensive lottery tickets online (with some proof of unique identity), and cheaper lottery tickets at the venue itself (still tied to identity) on a single day a few months in advance.

> who want to go the most.

And then there is the difference in means. I barely want to go to tswift, but it's no skin off my budget. My friends 15yo daughter is dying to go but its like 100% of her income for the next 3 months.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#284

Post by MichaelZuo »

detaro wrote: post #223
MichaelZuo wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they would also advertise the descending nature of it, so if they book a big enough venue, there won't be that much demand at $4000 to sell it out. So the price will descend down to more affordable levels. Of course if the biggest venue isn't big enough to do that, then that's more of a problem of the local facilities, or the artist's decision to play in an area with inadequately sized venues.

I don't think "avoid playing in places without mega-venues, because otherwise our self-choosen pricing policy will make us look bad" is a particularly clever approach. (not to mention that doing so will drive up the price for events in places with such mega-venues)

People accept the logic that smaller facilities = more restricted capacity = higher prices in pretty much every other context.

A Ferrari dealership has to turn away the vast majority of folks who want to test drive their cars, a B&B, or boutique hotel has to turn away customers, or price rooms very highly, on a busy weekend, etc.

They are still very popular regardless.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#285

Post by MichaelZuo »

blowski wrote: post #241
MichaelZuo wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well 2. is only a subset of 1., on a long enough time scale, as all human 'influences' will vanish too. Animals, even plants, experience market forces to some extent. So I would say 'You cannot influence the market over millions of years, it will always revert to form.'

Within the next million years, I predict we’ll find different solutions. For now, I’ll focus on the next few decades.

The point is that there always exists a market clearing price for everything, which can be modified temporarily via human action, but not forever.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#286

Post by sixo »

Spooky23 wrote: post #262
silvestrov wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the old trope that McDonalds is primarily a real estate business. In the same line of thinking, you could say Ticketmaster is a "scape goat" business so the artists and venues can get max profit while still coming of as innocent angels. It is now all Ticketmaster's fault. Venues and artists are innocent. This would explain why you can't fix it: where would the scapegoating go? When you have larger demand tha…

The problem with Ticketmaster is the same as any consolidation play. If you let a middleman control the wholesale and retail side of the transaction, you’re gonna get a bad deal. The solution is really simple, but the government no longer has the regulatory ability to do anything. You segment the distributor function from the retail, and end up with a bunch of retailers running volume driven low margin sales channels…

They also, iirc, act a bit like a specialized bank for venues, by paying for contracts up front (and I think I read also loaning money directly?) in exchange for the fee upside in sales and resales later. Venues want as much revenue as they gdt to come in as close to on sale date as possible. So it's "every sufficiently large company sells financial services", too.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#287

Post by yardstick »

cbsmith wrote: post #273
yardstick wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All that a lottery does is incentivize everyone to participate, even those who have no interest in going. Then a secondary market will engage in actual price discovery and you’re left with the current system. How would the secondary market work if you have to put peoples names on tickets upon buying the ticket. No renames allowed (bring your name change deed poll and old and new IDs I guess). Can’t make the concert…

My name is Chris Smith. Solve that.

Name and date of birth

Edit: Also Chris Smith is still a very limited sales opportunity compared to everyone. Plus Chris would be going alone assuming their partners name was not listed correctly or partners name didn’t have a ticket matching that too.

Hamilton already does something similar with having to present your ID plus the credit/debit card used for booking and the names must match. See https://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/hamilton/terms.html

The flaw in Hamilton is it’s only the name of the payer, but if multiple seats in one booking, those additional seats could still be on sold so long as the scalper escorts them into the theatre.

Solved by requiring names and dob for all ticket holders. No changes allowed. Mistakes (wrong name or dob) must be refunded and tickets back to lottery.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#288

Post by MichaelZuo »

manholio wrote: post #278
MichaelZuo wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly do fans prove their loyalty?

All kind of models are possible: associate your social ID and prove you've distributed band related content early in their career; associate multiple past purchases - for things like merchandising, fan specials, behind the scenes etc. etc. The main theme is giving band and labels tools to maintain and curate this relationship with the fanbase, and only then add ticketing on top of it. If you have a certain mass and s…

Doesn't this discriminate against fans that would not like to share their personal info. or who don't condone to this kind of tracking?
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