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NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

iapps.courts.state.ny.us

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Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#281

Post by tomp »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #255
tb_technical wrote: post #73

They took people's livelyhoods away, and now they gotta pay.

Not really, they were watching out for the health of other employees who had to work with employees that refused to do the most basic acts to prevent the spread of a deadly virus.

You're 100% bought into the propaganda. Isn't it time to pause and reflect?

Btw. "the science" hasn't changed. The vaccine never stopped the spread. There were no studies indicating that it did (medical trials were about hospitalisations / death, not infections / spreading). You fell for the fake science propagated by fake news media.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#282

Post by ls15 »

govg wrote: post #262
ls15 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest risk would be that a politician will be wrongfully denied participation when they actually were fit for the job. That's a smaller price to pay than living with a politician who works against the constitution.

Blind adherence to a document written ~200 years ago, in a world that has vastly changed cultural and social norms is incredibly short sighted. People elect politicians based on trust, and if the politicians decide to pass a law that is the will of the people manifested.

What are the options if that trust is abused?

People emotionally trick other people into voting for them and then do whatever is on their agenda during their mandate.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#283

Post by tinus_hn »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #151
spaetzleesser wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same happened in CA with some stores being open and others closed. Why was Home Depot open? It made no sense in terms of spreading the disease . It was just arbitrary BS. Closing the beaches was stupid too. If there ever was a safe place then it was the beach or state park wheee uou are in the open and the window blows.

People were rabidly cheering it on too. Police going around shutting playgrounds and arresting parents for playing outdoors with their children, while at the same time the politicians they voted for were constantly and egregiously shown to be flouting the rules on frivolities, parties, travel, fun. And there were excuses for the politicians and bloodlust for the commoner trying to exercise or raise their child. Absol…

> fun.

Its an amazingly corrupting kind of power, the ability to dictate the way others can have fun.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#284

Post by zdragnar »

vkou wrote: post #268
tb_technical wrote: post #73

They took people's livelyhoods away, and now they gotta pay.

When you willingly refuse to get vaccinated, and are thus more likely to catch and spread COVID, shouldn't we make you pay for any lives you've contributed to taking away?

The effectiveness of the vaccines in terms of preventing spread weren't studied, per pharmaceutical company testimony to congress. The whole notion that you getting the vaccine would prevent grandma from dying was a whole-cloth fabrication.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#285

Post by 6510 »

ls15 wrote: post #282
govg wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blind adherence to a document written ~200 years ago, in a world that has vastly changed cultural and social norms is incredibly short sighted. People elect politicians based on trust, and if the politicians decide to pass a law that is the will of the people manifested.

What are the options if that trust is abused? People emotionally trick other people into voting for them and then do whatever is on their agenda during their mandate.

You put up with it until the next election where a new rep abuses you the same way. That way you get the will of the people written into law your whole life long.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#286

Post by pas »

eduction wrote: post #109
jkhdigital wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social interaction which is based on mutual trust (whether from family or sustained direct interpersonal interaction) is not really what we're talking about here. Folk dance festivals do not feed the world. The social structure of modern society is, by and large, about interactions between mutually distrusting strangers and their agents as they negotiate the exchange and distribution of economic resources. Basically…

You’re talking about capitalism not social structure. The post above that brought up social structure is also a red herring. This is about legal power and the threat of coercion. It would be trivial to implement a law to punish (say) Eric Adams or someone else in or formerly in nyc government for what they did. There are probably some basic mechanical reasons that is not generally done (although I don’t mean to dismi…

the idea is that sanctioning past behavior, which was legal at the time, is super extra bad (ie. no retroactive punishment), because then you can never be sure that the the ruling powers that be won't send law enforcement after you. (of course the brutal truth is that you can never be sure, hence people should realize that there's no opt-out from politics)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#287

Post by lkrubner »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #155
phpisthebest wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also shown in polling data, where congress on the whole has an approval rating of less than 10%, yet most years the incumbent is reelected That statistic alone has me questioning if democracy is a good system

We need an option 'against all' and if that option wins, all candidates are disqualified for life. Then approval rating would mean something.

Assuming we need some kind of government, then does "against all" actually offer an improvement over the current system? The economist Kenneth Arrow suggested something in the opposite direction, approval voting, where the voters get as many votes as their are candidates, so the voters have the option of voting for everyone except maybe the absolute worst. Arrow did the math and liked the results from such a system of voting. And also, what is the goal of voting? Is it to give an individual an avenue for self-expression, or is it to achieve the social goal of forming a government? This is the argument against self-expression:

https://demodexio.substack.com/p/should-a-system-of-voting-a...

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#288

Post by lkrubner »

SllX wrote: post #52
lkrubner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christopher H. Achen & Larry M. Bartels wrote a whole book showing that voters do not keep track of what elected officials do, and so politicians are not punished for bad behavior, see excerpt here: https://demodexio.substack.com/p/longer-elected-terms-lead-t...

Correct, which is why I spoke mostly of Presidents and Parties who are all big enough targets that most American voters do form opinions about what they’re up to, even with only vague notions about the details. Individual members of Congress can usually skate by, but that’s only as true as their district or State is uncompetitive. And in States where “big issue” lawmaking is deferred to the public via referendum on a…

The emphasis on parties might be the most accurate part. This is a possible reason for the so-called "Panama Exception" -- a nation the should be a dictatorship and yet has been a thriving democracy:

https://demodexio.substack.com/p/the-panama-exception

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#289

Post by lkrubner »

alasdair_ wrote: post #116
phpisthebest wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also shown in polling data, where congress on the whole has an approval rating of less than 10%, yet most years the incumbent is reelected That statistic alone has me questioning if democracy is a good system

Democracy is fine. Representative democracy can go to hell.

In the other comment seneca points out that you're ignoring history with your comment. You might want to consider a system that goes in the other direction, and adds more layers of representation:

https://demodexio.substack.com/p/how-to-fix-democracy-empowe...

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#290

Post by throwawayacc2 »

curiousgal wrote: post #249
colechristensen wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of if they were the right thing to do, many of the various covid mandates being enacted through whatever form of decree really didn’t seem like they fit inside the authority of the government executives trying to enact them. Many were also made to be unenforceable so they’d never be tested in court while still influencing people. The rule of law is important and limiting the power of “rulers” to make large…

Us Americans are so obsessed with government overreach that you'd think our corporate overloads are actually treating us well and that the government is the bad guy. When the government wants to fuck us over, think what the NSA has been doing, they won't look for precedents so there's no point in treating every decision they make as a potential sliperry slope. Covid was/is killing people, vaccines prevent that, so va…

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