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Fake Books

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Re: Fake Books

#281

Post by mcguire »

WalterBright wrote: post #237
jerf wrote: post #223

One of the things that has kept me out of the cryptocurrency space is that when their advocates discuss value, they speak in pure nonsense. A big part of that problem is that value is very difficult to discuss. On the one hand you have the classic goldbug that insists that gold has "intrinsic value", which is some sort of platonic ideal thing that gold simply ambiently has and defies any attempt to nail down what it…

The value of something is simply what other people are willing to pay for it.

I have here a pencil. My buddy is willing to give me $100 for it, so its value is $100, right? But I'll sell it to you for only $50. Bargain!

Re: Fake Books

#282

Post by derefr »

WalterBright wrote: post #243
derefr wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, no, I do get why people would buy into money-making courses. I'm basically wondering why the market for money-making courses isn't a winner-take-all market, with the wealthiest course-creators spending their advertising budgets (that they earned by building their money-making-course empire when the field was more green) to outcompete upstarts in the money-making course market. Presumably, people can only be activ…

> so why aren't most people focused on learning + putting into practice, the techniques of a few very popular courses? Because that entails hard work.

No, I meant, why aren't a few very popular courses the only ones people hear about, such that they're de-facto only focused on those? Money buys advertising / brand recognition; why aren't there big-name money-making-course brands that are outcompeting the new upstarts? Why isn't the market consolidating around the guys who won big first and then reinvested in making their brands the biggest?

Re: Fake Books

#283

Post by monktastic1 »

lupire wrote: post #217
hex4def6 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gets me is; if this was a money making opportunity, and it truly is as simple as they make it out to be, aren’t they literally creating their own competitors in this space by revealing their secret? I’m sure the argument is something like “the market is so vast, that helping others do the same won’t affect my income stream”, but that suggests The correct answer is to scale up, not populate the landscape with com…

They are so rich that they are retired but want to pay it forward. But it's not free because they only want to teach people who take it seriously and respect the idea.

Can't tell if this is a joke, but the most likely explanation isn't nearly so noble. They realize that the stream for this particular scam has already run dry (thanks to Audible catching on), but realize that others don't know that yet.

Re: Fake Books

#285

Post by maxbond »

mcguire wrote: post #281
WalterBright wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of something is simply what other people are willing to pay for it.

I have here a pencil. My buddy is willing to give me $100 for it, so its value is $100, right? But I'll sell it to you for only $50. Bargain!

If your buddy throws in a an option to sell for 1 pencil at $100, then you've got a deal!

Re: Fake Books

#286

Post by mcguire »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #97
sneak wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh yes, the nation-state funded military-fake-book complex, destabilizing nations the world over. We really need to watch out for nation-states using incoherent technobabble!

The commenter does have a point though; there's a lot of low effort high volume spam on the internet that reinforce certain narratives that cause division, on subjects like gender identity, generational differences, favorite TV shows, wokeism, Brexit, classism, racism, etc. There's actors on both sides of those debates, not because they're particularly leaning towards one or the other, but because the division is cau…

One interesting book is Active Measures: The Secret History of Disinformation and Political Warfare by Thomas Rid. It's a history of disinformation, propaganda, and related shenanigans from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to the 2016 election, mostly focused on the Cold War.

For the most part, it's low-effort manipulations that very occasionally take hold---I can remember the anti-nuclear protests against the deployment of the Pershing II missiles in Europe---but the internet and social media have dropped the bar for "low-effort".

Re: Fake Books

#287

Post by BossingAround »

jjkaczor wrote: post #266
bluGill wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know if things are early though? Some go longer than others, so you can see some quack getting attention and buy in - just in time to be the last fool as everyone else realizes it is garbage. Or it can continue to go up - you have no way to know.

For myself, personally - that's an easy metric... By the time I hear about something, it's too late.

There are ten, if not hundreds, failed pyramid schemes for every one on which you could make money. The schemes are not made for you. The way to earn money off of pyramid schemes is to create one.

Whether bitcoin is just a pyramid scheme or not, only time will tell. I don't believe so, but I'm not an economist, so who am I to say :).

Re: Fake Books

#288

Post by trompetenaccoun »

jerf wrote: post #223

One of the things that has kept me out of the cryptocurrency space is that when their advocates discuss value, they speak in pure nonsense. A big part of that problem is that value is very difficult to discuss. On the one hand you have the classic goldbug that insists that gold has "intrinsic value", which is some sort of platonic ideal thing that gold simply ambiently has and defies any attempt to nail down what it…

The article as well as your comment (which doesn't even reference what is discussed in the blog post) are perfect examples for how narratives form in this strange new world. None of it has anything to do with NFTs or cryptocurrency except for the name. Everywhere people consume media, be it on Twitter or Amazon, they're bombarded with scams and nonsensical computer-generated content. Those not inclined to dig deeper soon start to believe the fake stuff is what the idea is really about.

There has always been misinformation, but not on this level. Only a few years back, when someone wanted to write a scam book, they still had to actually sit down and write it, no matter how carelessly. Now that this isn't needed anymore, it amazes me that someone would as much as look at - let alone buy and read - books on buzzword topics by random unknown authors. Same goes for the consumption of social media feeds.

Re: Fake Books

#289

Post by bryananderson »

JamesSwift wrote: post #273
jerf wrote: post #223

One of the things that has kept me out of the cryptocurrency space is that when their advocates discuss value, they speak in pure nonsense. A big part of that problem is that value is very difficult to discuss. On the one hand you have the classic goldbug that insists that gold has "intrinsic value", which is some sort of platonic ideal thing that gold simply ambiently has and defies any attempt to nail down what it…

> observing that my kid's doodles are scarce but not valuable is not a cute tweet; it is a complete and utter demolishing of the argument. Scarcity is not quantity. Its the relationship between supply and demand. In your scenario, supply (1 kid doodling) meets demand (1 person wants them), so the value doesnt move from 0 (which is how much you would pay for the doodles).

That’s the previous commenter’s point, isn’t it? The crypto advocates claim that crypto has intrinsic value simply because of its scarcity (supply-side only). The commenter’s rebuttal is that if this were true, their kid’s doodles would be extremely valuable, yet they are not because only the parent treasures them (demand-side).

With gold, one can come up with a plausible story for the demand side of the argument that it has intrinsic value: gold’s combination of beauty and scarcity has made it a potent status symbol across many eras and cultures (not to mention its industrial uses).

With crypto, it’s much harder to imagine what the demand side of the story is. There’s a finite supply of Bitcoin, and people demand it because… well, it’s not because they can pay for anything with it. They mostly seem to demand it because they believe someone else will pay them more for it in the future. And what do we call it when an asset has nothing going for it besides that hope?

I’m still waiting for a compelling story about why demand for Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency will persist beyond the current vogue, which is driven by the notion that “it’s gonna be huge in the future”. How long can people keep the faith, and what happens to demand if and when they stop?

Re: Fake Books

#290

Post by hoosieree »

jjkaczor wrote: post #266
bluGill wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know if things are early though? Some go longer than others, so you can see some quack getting attention and buy in - just in time to be the last fool as everyone else realizes it is garbage. Or it can continue to go up - you have no way to know.

For myself, personally - that's an easy metric... By the time I hear about something, it's too late.

I bought some cryptocurrencies on Coinbase about a year ago. Today I figured was as good a time as any to cash out. My net loss was about 70%.

I'm fortunate that this was a small amount relative to my net worth to count as a fun "experiment" and not a significant chunk of the money I need to survive.

Based on this N=1 experiment, I now feel justified in suggesting more profitable and environmentally friendly endeavors, such as lighting half your money on fire.

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