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AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

chatterhead.bearblog.dev

281–290 of 379 posts

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#281
It's not machine learning that's required to make computers better than humans at chess.

Non machine-learning chess engines engines based on alpha-beta pruning and expertly-crafted evaluation functions have been stronger than all human chess players for a long time now.

Given this blog post, one might ask whether replacing middle management with alpha-beta pruning and expertly-crafted evaluation functions makes sense.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#283
post #120

What does chess have in common with retail middle management? As someone who has managed a retail store and played chess, I can confidently answer: nothing. Remember when Watson beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy? And then IBM saturated the airwaves with ads about how Watson was going to revolutionize industries like energy and health care? Notice how we don’t see those ads anymore? It’s because winning Jeopardy has nothi…

I think we are still debating what “AI” really stands for. I believe most people intuitively think AGI whenever AI is mentioned. Once we have AGI - still out a few decades I guess - we could replace a lot more than just middle management. If we’re talking non-AGI AI (for lack of a better term) I don’t see why it’s any different than introducing tools that merely compute faster than a human, just like Excel for exampl…

AI or AGI -- Artificial General Intelligence -- The human fantasy about human intelligence and automation that is used to make marketing language thrilling and may also serve as a plot element in fiction and cinema. Proponents may obtain a Ph-antasy D-egree to improve their influence. An as yet unexhausted domain of hyperbole and confusion.

ML -- Machine Learning -- The somewhat more modest attempt to name what we are really doing. Ph-antasy D-egree not required but may improve influence. Muddled terminology introduced to sow confusion about what are really just regression and clustering algorithms.

Automating regression and clustering algorithms -- What we are really doing.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#284
post #10

Reminds me of the story Manna: https://marshallbrain.com/manna1

Came here to make your comment. I think though that in the time since manna was written the ratio of machine performance on hands on and creative tasks vs management tasks has radically equalized.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#285
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How’s AI going to do that better than a fellow human? It will create metrics that will formalize a new paradigm. You know that arbitrary number in your bank account that defines you, that number on your report card, that rating on an Amazon review, that number that’s defining global inflation, that metric that measures interest rate, that number of hours you work … The fucking lines of code, number of commits, points…

We don’t have to blame AI for metrics that do not include comfort and job satisfaction. The effects you described are not inherent to AI but to goals that upper people impose on lower people through a pyramid of management. Everyone there cares about profits and efficiency, nobody gives a fuck about workers living on the edge. Maybe stripping this paradigm naked is a good thing and a way to something else.

You've reduced a large swath of humanity to propaganda talking points.

The key point you fail to grasp is that this isn't going to be a stripping back but rather a consentration of power and focus around those you vilify. There will be less transparency and fewer chances for humanity to intervene on its behalf.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if you measure 30 years, let’s say starting at 20 for a young adult - that all the way until they are 50 they will have to deal with this. We as a society are basically saying at least one generation of people are a lost generation. Like all the people that slaved during Industrialization without workers protection or quality of life fixes, or all the millions that died in WW1/2 because we couldn’t understa…

I don't know for the US worker, they seems to be able to take any abuse and ask for more free market in their ass. But that stuff would not fly in places where workers have some leverage and can influence policies. ( Or let's be more real : influence policies roll-out and eventually stopping them for a few years )

Citations needed.

As someone who works in an international environment and routinely taveles between sites run by international conglomerates workers in Europe for example are not better protected than workers in the US, they've simply ceded more control to government.

The real difference between European and US workers is in sheer productivity. Sure, Americans work more hours but they also get more done in those hours. The difference in regulatory and cultural overheads is significant.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#287
I think that one of important purposes of hierarchy alongside the delegation of responsibilities is the delegation of liabilities.

One can let AI handle some of the aspects of responsibilities of middle mgmt, like reports, metrics and assignments. But should things go south for whatever reason, AI won't be able to assume the liabilities and shield the upper mgmt.

Besides, one can't form a clique or faction with AI.

On the other hand, replacing workers with AI still has the lure of "advancement" ... to bad AI hyped more than it could deliver and in the long run turned more expensive to operate, hardly replaceable too.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#288
Ask yourself: In your day job, how much “management” of your work do you do for yourself?

If your answer is “I mostly manage myself”, then your manager has already vacated the role we’re talking about automating with AÍ. You will experience this new AI manager as a set of tools to help you get your work done.

If your answer is “I am frequently, directly managed” then your manager will be replaced by software that is able to more quickly and accurately monitor your work, because computers can be everywhere, all at once, real-time, 24/7, and no human can beat them at this. There will still be someone “higher-up-the-chain” from you, but they won’t be interacting with you on a daily basis.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#289

What does chess have in common with retail middle management? As someone who has managed a retail store and played chess, I can confidently answer: nothing. Remember when Watson beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy? And then IBM saturated the airwaves with ads about how Watson was going to revolutionize industries like energy and health care? Notice how we don’t see those ads anymore? It’s because winning Jeopardy has nothi…

Watson was a stunt. It's not very hard for someone on HN to figure out how much of Watson was Watson. The crowd still bought it. But as someone who worked on software that handled the last example you gave, I assure, a few well placed if and elses do the trick. Also, humans have tendency to follow any instructions sent to them when it is titled "System" or "Administration". *System Message:* New revised schedule for.…

Humanity is shaped by its tools much more than the other way around.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#290
I think had the author gone with a thesis more like "AI will remove the decision-making from middle management, leaving purely the human-to-human aspect of management," it might have been a more palatable (though still arguable) essay. As it is, there's tons that managers do that AI will never really do, because those things can't be boiled down to mathematical formulae.
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