Live data from Hacker News

I don’t believe in sprints

robinrendle.com

281–290 of 459 posts

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#281
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the alternative without sprints? What specifically about not using sprints would help the team if they lack good planners and people capable of seeing the big picture? Isn't such a team screwed regardless of how they allot work?

A more fluid "here's what we're prioritizing next" approach. is that 'kanban'? (I think so?) Worked on a small group (2-3 people?) and .. 'agile-2-week-sprint-estimate-tickets-with-points' wasn't working well. This is 'startup/mvp' area, and we migrated to just a simpler task board. Owner moves tickets up and down in a "to do" queue, and someone (usually me) takes current 'to do' tickets, and does them and releases.…

This is what we've been using for some years now, despite the general Scrum-y pressure in the organization I work in. (It is not a mandate, note we get no blowback for what we do as it is under our control, I'm just saying most of the rest of the teams definitely do something more Scrum-y.)

I am a big believer in "true agile", since "Agile" (note capital letter) has become heavily corrupted. "True agile" can really be summed up as "try some different things, keep what works for you". My team has a large number of independent projects, more than one per person. Because of that we tend to have one person working on a given project at a time, as that is a cheap way to avoid coordination overhead if you are able to get away with it.

What we found for "sprints" is that we couldn't plan anything with them, because the variance in how much time we were actually going to have to work on a project was too high. We might have the full two weeks to work on what we said we were going to work on. We might have a fire on another system that pulled that person away for literally 3/4ths of that "sprint". We might have an emergency feature request that could do the same thing. We found this variance to dominate the rest of our time planning, which resulted in our "sprint planning" being a bad joke. Nor could we just "git gud" at sprint planning, because the variance in the amount of time we had to spend on it was far, far too pathological.

I do not present this as evidence that "Sprints" are bad for everyone, only that there are cases where they really don't based on my experience as well. This has been my personal working mode for most of the last 10 years, and they've never worked for me. We've switched to a much more Kanban style of planning, which gives us the flexibility to deal with our issues without wrecking all our plans. I personally take the brunt of a lot of the highest frequency switching in our team, and my primary goal is that on a given day, I am working on one project, with a secondary goal of trying to keep it chunked up by week. That latter often fails, but I definitely try to avoid switching projects mid-day. (Which also fails, sometimes due to fires, but I've noticeably improved on this metric in the past couple of years.)

We've tried at least twice to switch to a more Sprint-y method of organization to better match the rest of the organization, but failed both times. I'm fine with the attempt, I'm just very glad we've also retained the flexibility to admit it was a failure, and that it isn't mandated from above that we must do the Sprint approach.

The vast bulk of teams in the rest of the organization I work in does have 3-7 person teams all working on one particular system, and while nobody ever escapes from the possibility of fires, they have a lower variance on the impact on that for all sorts of reasons. (Most notable being that 3/4ths of a week for one person out of 3-7 is a lower impact than 3/4ths of a week out of what was effectively zero people, which means it was actively drawing against what was nominally another project's time. That's a really big difference.) Sprints work much better for them. I'm sure they fail them sometimes but they generally seem to work for them.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#282
post #6

This is nothing but a bad strawman from start to finish. Sprints are not made to help organize things, they're a tool to get more predictable deliveries. Their very short nature forces participants to construct tasks that are easier to estimate and therefore complete on time with a higher probability. This certainly adds overhead to an idealised scenario where people take the shortest reasonble route often enough and…

I absolutely have to 'like' it because I have to do it. Scrum masters and Product Owners love to inflict Agile bullshit, but they do not suffer from it. They have little understanding of the process of software development and imagine themselves to be capable of 'adding value'. Agile is a failed experiment kept alive by people who have no skill other than working the work.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#283
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the alternative without sprints? What specifically about not using sprints would help the team if they lack good planners and people capable of seeing the big picture? Isn't such a team screwed regardless of how they allot work?

A more fluid "here's what we're prioritizing next" approach. is that 'kanban'? (I think so?) Worked on a small group (2-3 people?) and .. 'agile-2-week-sprint-estimate-tickets-with-points' wasn't working well. This is 'startup/mvp' area, and we migrated to just a simpler task board. Owner moves tickets up and down in a "to do" queue, and someone (usually me) takes current 'to do' tickets, and does them and releases.…

Kanban is also fine, for the reasons you mentioned. I wonder if TFA favors this methodology?

Do note Kanban can devolve into "do everything, all at once, and we need right now. Stop doing what you're doing, do this thing instead!". It happened to my team, and we had to ditch it because the stakeholders weren't onboard with no fixed cadence of deliveries.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#284
post #6

This is nothing but a bad strawman from start to finish. Sprints are not made to help organize things, they're a tool to get more predictable deliveries. Their very short nature forces participants to construct tasks that are easier to estimate and therefore complete on time with a higher probability. This certainly adds overhead to an idealised scenario where people take the shortest reasonble route often enough and…

I've worked in places where the cycle to integrate work was more than six months. In a situation like that you often don't really know how to build the product at all and the six months can stretch to anywhere between 8 months and 18 months. It is true though that springs bring in their own problems. For instance I worked on one project with two week sprints where it took a 2-3 day batch job to generate a database/a.…

>> could have it right now if you add 2 days to the sprint.

Unwillingness to modulate the length of a sprint is one of the strongest "cargo cult" indicators in my exposure to Agile/Scrum.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every rant like this is a straw man rant overfitted to the writer's worst experience of what someone called "agile" in one of their companies once.

In the same way that few ReST implementations are truly ReSTful, few agile implementations are truly agile. The Agile Manifesto came into style, then predictably a cottage industry of small companies grew up around it, with the business model of charging Fortune 500s huge amounts of money to train their Engineering departments. I've sat through such training before, and I can say without doubt that the day our compan…

I tend to think of communism as a comparison. Aren't proponents of "agile" similar to those saying "we've never had real communism"?

Both have manifestos.

I think there are certain systems that make sense and can be executed properly but human nature eventually mucks it up.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#286

I get the sense that the OP has never worked on a large team or massive product with a large surface area and competing goals. I get it, for a lot of smaller endeavors that only have a few devs then sprint ceremonies would be overkill. But if working on large project with many teams, the lack of structure would be almost certain death. Entertaining tirade though.

I've worked on a giant team for a massive product. 200 developers, a wall of specifications. The project was cancelled after 4 years, I don't know how many squillions it cost. It was called Global Wholesale Banking.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#288
post #65

Sprints and (point-based) estimations on tickets are not to improve software quality, they are to improve manageability of the software development process. If you work at a product shop, you might well be able to do without them. If you build software for clients, the planning is VERY important in order keep the client happy. Knowing ASAP that the project is going to miss a deadline/budget/feature is key to whomever…

Are your projects just two-week projects for the client? Or, if they're longer, do you plan out all the sprints in advance (which isn't really Scrum best practices as far as I understand?). I mean if you have a larger project (larger than two weeks) and you just plan for the next two weeks (as Scrum tells you to do, as far as I understand) how do you know that if you deliver this sprint you'll be able to deliver the…

you dont. but at least you know when you go off, and can inform the client timely.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#289
the writer assumes that sprints are adopted to help the developers, while in fact its a tool so that product owners track progress in a way to have a shorter feedback cycle than in months.

Of course its more convenient not to worry about sprints and time/points and "just work", and that is usually the case in startups or backend teams where the stakeholders are all always present in the same room, but once you add more layers to the organisation chart it becomes harder to track what everyone is focused on right now and that they are planning to do next without sprints or something similar.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#290
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how whenever I've done kanban, top tech debt items always are eternally pushed down to #5 or 6 in the backlog, never to see the light of day. I have my criticisms for sure, but sprints give more discretion to the teams to carve out space for multiple types of priorities held in balance, and lock that ratio in for a period of time.

> sprints give more discretion to the teams when they do. i was part of an 'agile' team in 2019 (6 mo contract). I wasn't there long enough to have strong views on work items or priorities, but did watch the interactions between others. It was a decently organized team inside a (fast) growing org - lots of challenges there. But overall, there was a decent balance. Worked on another smaller team longer - 2 years. As t…

I think the answer here is to point your current tickets higher. When someone asks for estimates on time, or points, you give a higher estimate so as to not leave as much tech debt behind. In theory or course, may not work in practice.
Post reply on HN