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President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

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Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#281

Post by panick21_ »

bigodbiel wrote: post #192
88840-8855 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, super good idea. We had fantastic experience with humiliated nations before. It worked so well for Germany after WW1 /s FACT: the end of this war must be positive for the Russian people, no matter whether Russia loses or wins the military operation. Putin came to power because the West didnt help the former Soviet republics. If Russia is left alone humiliated again then we will have the next anti-western sys…

Soviet Russia after its collapse had a chance to integrate itself to the west. Even if neoliberal policies were attrocious (and they weren't exclusive to Russia, but to the whole developing world) during the 90's, its integration to the global division of labor is what allowed them to re-emerge and have rising standards of living, much higher than during Soviet times. But they still want revanchism and imperialism in…

> neoliberal policies were attrocious

They were not. The reality is that if you put all post-sovit countries on a graph and look at those that actually did neoliberal policies correctly, those are now the nations that are by far the most successful.

Its not the fault of the West that the Russian elites were totally an completely corrupt and had no interest in real reform. Russia actually resisted many reforms and the elites simply put themselves in a position to take advantage. To just blame all of that on the West is nonsense.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#282

Post by panick21_ »

misiti3780 wrote: post #252
vincnetas wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you say that WWII did not humiliate Germany? Can we do same to Russia then? What is your proposal to how not humiliate Russia? Russia already humiliated themselves by not wining this conflict for so long. In their book anything less than total conquest of Ukraine is humiliation.

They said WWI. I assume they were referring to the Versaille Treaty

Yes but the point the parent made was that after WW1 they were not restricted and it lead to WW2 and after WW2 it lead to the EU. So its pretty clear what strategy was better.

In fact, the Republicans under Henry Cabot Lodge wanted exactly that, Germany had to be defeated and invaded. It was the only way to get lasting peace in Europe. And of course many in France like Foch wanted the same thing.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#283

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #184
sofixa wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In all, I don't think the mobilization is likely to matter Oh it matters. More poorly trained and equipped cannon fodder means more dead and more prisoners. The influx of caskets into previously less impacted areas in Russia might start to impact the general population more - that's how the USSR had to pull out of Afghanistan.

Not quite. Russia has already lost several multiples of the total losses it experienced in Afghanistan as the USSR (many of which were Ukranian btw). The USSR had a lot more troops vs. Russia's current situation which is really a smaller peacetime army (pre mobilization). The reason they had to leave Afghanistan was it simply too expensive due to the cost and the sanctions and they couldn't afford to do it. Which IS…

>> too expensive due to the cost and the sanctions and they couldn't afford to do it. Which IS what is happening in Ukraine too.

How so? Putin is swimming in money Europeans send him. Sanctions are a joke.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#284

Post by aizen89 »

It seems to me that the occupied regions of Ukraine are very vast and cannot be controlled by the number of Russian troops that they now have in Ukraine. Accordingly, more human resources are needed, so they want to close this gap with the help of this call (about 300 thousand soldiers).

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#285

Post by [deleted] »

willsmith72 wrote: post #64

This is really going to screw Russia for generations. Every young Russian I know has either already left, plans to leave, or has to stay but hates their leader. You don't get your country to turn into a superpower by losing the most educated and skilled of the young generations. I only hope as things get more desperate he doesn't feel trapped lash out with the nukes.

[deleted]

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#286

Post by _0w8t »

sharikous wrote: post #230
_0w8t wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you, but Kharkiv collapse was not that big. While Russia abandoned a lot of equipment there, they managed to withdraw most of it and the vast majority of troops. It looks like after the initial Ukrainian breakthrough Russian generals managed to convince Putin to abandon most of Kharkiv and focus on Donbas instead. At Bakhmut Russia did made small but meaningful progress with Ukrainian sources repo…

> Bakhmut is the last Ukrainian line in Donbas There are a lot of other lines, e.g. near Donetsk. And with the time it is taking for the Russians to advance there is plenty of time for the Ukrainians to set up other lines. > Kharkiv collapse was not that big It removed the last hope the Russian had to take the fortifications you mention from behind, descending from the north. Now the Russians are just throwing everyt…

The was a heavy battle between US army and Russian mercenaries from Wagner in Syria. There are various estimates but at least 100 Russians were killed and probably up to 400,

https://www.coffeeordie.com/wagner-group-syria-khasham

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#287

Post by spywaregorilla »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #283
spywaregorilla wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. Russia has already lost several multiples of the total losses it experienced in Afghanistan as the USSR (many of which were Ukranian btw). The USSR had a lot more troops vs. Russia's current situation which is really a smaller peacetime army (pre mobilization). The reason they had to leave Afghanistan was it simply too expensive due to the cost and the sanctions and they couldn't afford to do it. Which IS…

>> too expensive due to the cost and the sanctions and they couldn't afford to do it. Which IS what is happening in Ukraine too. How so? Putin is swimming in money Europeans send him. Sanctions are a joke.

Russia enjoyed a brief surplus with high gas prices. It has collapsed and the government is now running a towards a hefty deficit. About 90% gone in just two months. Government spending is being cut down by 10% next year, while a greater share is allocated to the military, meaning actual useful domestic spending is going to go down even more. The sanctions are having a strong effect.

The military spending is cushioned by the fact that they had so much shit lying around to throw into the fire, but this will continue to grow worse over time.

Contrary to popular belief, Russia cannot simply switch selling gas from europe to china either. The pipeline infrastructure does not exist to turn it into LNG and ship it in comparable quantities.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/15/economy/russia-economy-budget...

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#288

Post by koonsolo »

rascul wrote: post #237
koonsolo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we closed our eyes in the past doesn't mean we need to continue doing that. It's the straw that breaks the camels back. Shooting down Russian airplanes over Ukrainian territory when they are literally bombing Ukraine is not "an act of war against Russia". That's a bit of a far stretch don't you think? If NATO bombs Belarus and Russian airplanes defend, you can hardly call that "Russian war against NATO".

> Shooting down Russian airplanes over Ukrainian territory when they are literally bombing Ukraine is not "an act of war against Russia". That's a bit of a far stretch don't you think? It is an act of war. It is not a far stretch.

It is clearly not threatening "the territorial integrity of Russia", as Russia likes to call it. Because those planes get attacked over enemy territory.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#289

Post by koonsolo »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #207
koonsolo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we closed our eyes in the past doesn't mean we need to continue doing that. It's the straw that breaks the camels back. Shooting down Russian airplanes over Ukrainian territory when they are literally bombing Ukraine is not "an act of war against Russia". That's a bit of a far stretch don't you think? If NATO bombs Belarus and Russian airplanes defend, you can hardly call that "Russian war against NATO".

> If NATO bombs Belarus and Russian airplanes defend, you can hardly call that "Russian war against NATO". That is literally a casus belli. It very much is an act of war.

According to Russia, even sending weapons is an act of war. It all has degrees. There is a clear difference between attacking Russia on their own territory vs defening Ukraine over Ukraine territory, with their consent. Russia would do nothing, just like when Moskva was sunk, just like when airfields on annexed Crimea were attacked.

Edit: So what would happen if Russia flies a fighterjet over NATO territory and they shoot it down. An act of war?

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#290

Post by vladcodes »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #154

A few months ago analysts were warning of impending collapse of Russia's troops due to poor supplies and poor morale. Russian cheerleaders on HN were doubting it as Western propaganda saying it had been declared for months and not materialized. Well it materialized in the collapse of the Kharkiv front over a week so there's that. In all, I don't think the mobilization is likely to matter. The Russian problem is bad s…

> In all, I don't think the mobilization is likely to matter.

Have you seen any zombie movies?

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