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What I’ve learned from users

paulgraham.com

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Re: What I’ve learned from users

#281

Post by Scoundreller »

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #243
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you buy a Toyota following the Tesla model, where you call and say "I'd like to buy the car you have, for the price you have listed", you will also have a generally good experience.

I wish that was the case. The dealership experience seems designed to maximize the pressure and extract as much value from customers as possible. My first Toyota dealer experience was offering to buy a car at advertised price, and them refusing/countering with a lease. We just walked out. Based on that, I waited until Toyota offered pretty good unadvertised discounts and called up a bunch of dealers with an offer/car…

> I got the car my wife and I wanted for $1k more than my offer, which was I think $9k less than MSRP

I think these numbers are better represented in percents rather than absolutes. $9k less than msrp on a Corolla seems unobtainium.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#283

Post by Scoundreller »

scruple wrote: post #265
lnwlebjel wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I rank buy a car from a new car salesman as the worst consumer experience of my life. So much so that I've since bought used cars and in the future hope to buy a Tesla in large part to avoid that experience. I understand that it could greatly benefit the salesperson in understanding the social psychology of the consumer ... but never again will I subject myself to that process.

My last 2 vehicle purchases (2014 and 2021) were through internet sales managers. I told them what I wanted, when I was intending to buy, that I had sent the same e-mail to every $MAKE dealership from San Diego to San Francisco, and that whoever had the best offer was getting my money. It was a painless experience both times.

My friend tried to do this with a Subaru and got nowhere. But it was in 2018 I think.

Nothing to lose with the strategy, but it is societal economic situation and demand of car dependent.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#285

Post by Scoundreller »

arecurrence wrote: post #117
lotsofpulp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting because as a car buyer, the only experience I want is car sellers quoting me prices until I get the lowest one. All via email.

Bought a car via carwoo back when it was in business. The service let you message dealership salespeople and get quotes back. I met the guy that sold me my car for about 15 seconds total in the entire process. By far the swiftest and best large product purchasing experience I ever had. I was sad to see them close.

I think Costco used to have a service like this, but it’s on hiatus because it doesn’t really work with the supply chain issues.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#286

Post by Scoundreller »

m-ee wrote: post #209
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about top 1% in the country. So buying from me would be a different experience. Maybe you landed on someone in the bottom 50%, at a bad dealership too. The owner of our dealership was a Cal grad, the sales manager was a Jewish accounting major, I had an engineering degree, my favorite coworker completed medschool but couldn't pass the MCATS, and everyone else had a degree too. When I went to work for a Penske d…

The MCAT is for admission into med school. How did they complete it without passing?

I think in another post they said they were premed, so maybe they completed that program but couldn’t get a high enough score on the standardized test that most schools require.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#287

Post by Scoundreller »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #202
bluGill wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone checks KBB, edmunds, and all the others before buying a car. Thus everyone knows exactly what the dealer is paying for the car before walking in. Nobody is willing to leave the dealer a reasonable profit margin or the salesman a living wage. There are plenty of other dealers and nobody is loyal so odds are they won't see you again no matter how good the experience is (if you are a corporation buying for a fl…

I personally don't think what the dealer paid matters. If a car is desirable, a few are available, we're going to sell for as much as possible. If a car is undesirable, and many are available and we need to move them, we will sell them for a loss. I don't blame people for buying cars we sell for at a loss (although sometimes I wonder why these people don't stop and wonder why this car is so heavily discounted). And t…

You could probably make a post on dealer allocations by manufacturers. Dealers are effectively obligated to move the cars sent to them, the crap and the gold.

Then there’s the gold that only gets short-listed to customers that have been long-time customers and sometimes helped you move the crap (but that’s probably only on the higher-end of things).

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#288

Post by Scoundreller »

dboreham wrote: post #268
bluGill wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone checks KBB, edmunds, and all the others before buying a car. Thus everyone knows exactly what the dealer is paying for the car before walking in. Nobody is willing to leave the dealer a reasonable profit margin or the salesman a living wage. There are plenty of other dealers and nobody is loyal so odds are they won't see you again no matter how good the experience is (if you are a corporation buying for a fl…

> Thus everyone knows exactly what the dealer is paying for the car before walking in. Myth, I think. That information (the real wholesale cost) is not public.

And hard to genuinely calculate with the Hollywood accounting that goes on with promos/rebates/incentives for the dealers themselves.

How do you allocate a $x promo for selling Y cars in a month, when some of those cars were unpopular crap and others sold themselves?

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#289

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

caminante wrote: post #255
CAPSLOCKSSTUCK wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found it odd.

GGP is screaming #quityourbullshit. e.g., How do you fail an MCAT? You get a score. The rest sounds like partial truth + embellishment.

I mistook boards, for mcat. He obviously had a decent mcat since he got into a medical school.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#290

Post by q-big »

jraby3 wrote: post #263
throwaway2037 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"creeping boiler room effect" -- I never saw this phrase before. I like it. This is the reason that I personally avoid sales people (outside of work / socially). To me: Sales is fundamentally about upselling -- selling you more than you need. How can people do this 8 hours per day, then go home and pretend they are not a sales person? Every GOOD sales person tells me they are "only like that at work". No, they are no…

Doesn’t it matter what they are “selling” after work hours? I was a salesman 20+ years ago and still engage in up selling my friends. But it’s usually to get them to engage in healthy activities like working out, going for a walk, or eating healthy; or to get them to try a new experience like tasting a new food or being more honest/kind to their loved ones. Sometimes I wonder if I’m exhausting to them or they appreci…

Some people insanely detest being manipulated - even if it is for their own good (that's at least what the manipulating person claims). I personally observe this "manipulation-detesting" character trait in particular to be prevalent in hacker circles.

By the way: this is also a reason that I see why so many hackers date differently from the typical population since dating is about manipulating the other side to love one.

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