It is incredibly sad, and often repeated. Greed makes people do really short-sighted, horrible things. You can't take all that cash with you when you die, but you can leave a legacy. Do you really want to be known as the guy who wasn't happy with his lazy $1.8B and needed to squeeze the little guy to find a couple million dollars. People take a risk on startups, and we should be celebrating the "google chef" phenomenon. If the chef is walking away with 8 figures then things are going very well indeed.
Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired
281–290 of 383 posts
Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
The company didn't hire you to work as a 4-share employee, they hired you to work as a 4-share employee with significant upside potential . That is how early startup employees are compensated for the increased risk and lesser salary they take on.
Yes, you and your sibling threads are all correct, but it's not extortion. It's immoral and will certainly hurt them in the future, but it's not extortion. I am simply trying to explain why this is a moral issue and not a legal issue. This is the equivalent of saying: 'your gonna have to take a pay cut or were gonna have to let you go'. It is morally repugnant and goes against everything we believe in the startup com…
I agree it is not extortion. Extortion typically requires the threat of unlawful force. If I way "Pay me $100 not to picket your company" and I start lawfully picketing that's not extortion. Otherwise workers strikes would all be illegal.
The larger issue though here is that of a contract. The company has in essence said "we want you to stick around and so we are giving you an incentive of stock options which vest on such and such a schedule."
Later they are saying "give up what we gave you or leave so we can take them back." It's this choice here which says clearly "we are going back on our contracts with you."
A close example might be this "We are giving you a raise and will pay you retro pay next month when this goes through but you have to work fewer hours at your hourly wage" and then the next month saying "sorry, no retro pay for you."
I think this would be a fun case. And now that class action cases have taken a few serious setbacks in the courts, it seems to me that Zynga really should be getting sued by lots and lots of employees in individual lawsuits..... One piranha may be good for dinner, but don't wade into a swarm of them.
Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
IT is not a valid reason to reclaim unvested stock, those are looked at like current compensation when termination is unjust. You cant terminate someone just to unvest them. That being said, I always draw a line through and contract that says that I loose vesting on termination, and change it to all options become instantly vested on termination. IF they want to negotiate as to when the options will be awarded to ens…
They're being terminated because they are not contributing relative to the amount they are being compensated. That seems to be perfectly legal to me (although it will probably hurt them in the long run).
Well, yes. But the possibility of this excess was part of equity compensation in the first place, and came with the possibility (probability!) of compensation less than their contribution.
IANAL, but if the termination is motivated by the success of the equity gamble the employee took up front, that looks more like breach of contract. Don't want to keep them? That's fine, but pay what you promised you'd pay.
Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired
#284With the unvested shares, the executives believed they could attract more top talent with the promise of stock. Not anymore they won't.
I couldn't agree more. Even if we assume there is a justifiable reason or perhaps its happening only to employees who have not performed (which I doubt can be the case considering those employees could not have lasted this long any way), this probably has done irreparable damage to their reputation in the eyes of current and prospective employees. I hope all this bad PR makes them reconsider it, if not anything else.
I know several top-tier CS school classmates who are seniors and had interviewed with Zynga. They were considering working there. Not anymore.
Note to companies: Don't be assholes. We don't like assholes.
Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I think this is the execs trying to grab as much stock as possible for themselves pre-IPO, so they can dump it and run. This is EXACTLY what is happening - anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded or plain stupid. When Lockheed bought Savi technology, the RFID company, there were massive stock bonuses given out to the the Savi execs just prior to the sale. Then they told all the employees who had been there less than…
"Pincus is a very very VERY shady character" Any examples of this? Not that I don't believe you, but just curious
http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/09/zynga_pincus_cop...
Tells his team to steal game ideas, makes millions in the process then shafts the people who made it happen for him.
Would love to hear from someone who can paint him in a better light than the horrible individual I have in mind at the moment.
Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not willing to go into specifics, but I will say that I saw worse things in the biotech industry. Having something in the pipeline for human clinical trials really boosts the IPO, even if maybe it doesn't belong there.
I've seen that too, and I've heard some whoppers of stories. Like, stuff that does not even slightly exist. Pig, meet lipstick. Like I said in another part of the thread: the stock market is the dumbest money around.
It looks that way to me too. I wish I knew of a smarter place to put it.
Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it ever that simple? How can you know a person's moral character just through a job interview? What about if you were Zynga employee #50 and Pincus didn't even interview you, but the company wasn't big enough for TC to post about it's shadiness? What if an honest man gets tempted by 9 figures in a once in a lifetime situation?
It may be more simple than you guess! If dishonesty has infused a company's DNA, that's often something you can feel. Values cluster people together, so a founder with... shall we say, ethical flexibilities, will often surround him or herself with others of similar persuasions. So I'd say it trickles down. You get a vibe. I've met people who I'd never want to work with only because of the spidey sense tingling, you k…
It reminds me of a cult. "They seemed like such nice people!"
Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen that too, and I've heard some whoppers of stories. Like, stuff that does not even slightly exist. Pig, meet lipstick. Like I said in another part of the thread: the stock market is the dumbest money around.
It looks that way to me too. I wish I knew of a smarter place to put it.
Your own business. Children. Real estate. These long-term investments are as old as time itself, and they do pay off.
Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would fault the Startup School organizers for this. They are creating a community that is catering largely to people who are young, talented, but not experienced. They need to be educating people about how to avoid the pitfalls and scams of the startup world as well as about how to succeed. Instead, they bring scummy fast talkers and put these people up on the stage as ideals. Not only is that teaching the next gen…
pg has also gotten into bed with Yuri Milner and his DST firm. You will notice that both Zynga and Groupon are recipients of DST funds, so it's no surprise that pg is promoting Pincus and Mason. In fact, I have no doubt that if any of the new batch of YC startups were to become successful and IPO, this sort of behaviour that Pincus is trying to pull may be emulated. When you lie with dogs you get fleas, etc.
Don't forget Milner's mafia connections.
Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired
#290I think one thing that is being overlooked is that the assumption is that these employees are "underperforming". And many ask, why not just fire them if they are.
I bet they are not underperforming in the "fire them" sense. I think the better word is "undeserving". The story quotes the Google Chef examples. I bet those early Googlers did not think the Chef was "underperforming", but clearly Pinkus thinks the chef is undeserving of $20 million from the Google IPO.
So some IT worker, who started early with the company, whose main job is to install new desktops, and fix the printers, and keep the network secure is "undeserving" of $20 million from the Zynga IPO, compared to the lead game designer who designed Cafe World, who Pinkus thinks IS deserving of the same amount.
It's more about thinking certain people (janitor, secretary, HR, finance, etc.) are not as valuable to the company as the lead developer or creative director or someone whose work is public facing.
And it is despicable.