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Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

theguardian.com

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Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#281

Post by Dan_Sylveste »

q1w2 wrote: post #255
Dan_Sylveste wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I also can't understand why we need parades that share what other people do in their bedrooms Probably a reaction 'what they do in the bedroom' being made literally illegal for a long period of time. I can imagine wanting to throw a parade to show the 'good people of society' that you're just as human as they are, with the expected goal being to ward off further persecution in the future.

What happens in people's bedrooms hasn't been illegal in the west for a long time - and even before was not often enforced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas

I think that most people would say that 2003 is not 'a long time ago.'

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#282

Post by Dan_Sylveste »

Banana699 wrote: post #243
Dan_Sylveste wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I also can't understand why we need parades that share what other people do in their bedrooms Probably a reaction 'what they do in the bedroom' being made literally illegal for a long period of time. I can imagine wanting to throw a parade to show the 'good people of society' that you're just as human as they are, with the expected goal being to ward off further persecution in the future.

>Probably a reaction 'what they do in the bedroom' being made literally illegal for a long period of time. This can be used to justify anything. Muslims and Jews used to be persecuted in catholic spain for a very long time since the 1400s, should muslims make periodic month-long parades where they play the quran loudly and cosplay as 14th century muslim warriors ? should Spain be forced to host them ? "I was harmed i…

>This would make you more honest, and also open your eyes to some effects you're not currently seeing with the overly moralistic framework, such as that the "owning" might be overly broad and end up making people who previously had no problem with the group in question gradually resent it more and more as it intrude further into their life year after year.

You're not going to find disagreement from me here, I think that some aspects of the pride parade are probably detrimental to the acceptance of LGBTetc amongst regular members of society.

There seems to be a subgroup that enjoys showcasing what can fairly honestly (as in, not in a pearl-clutching kind of way) be described as deviant behaviour and I don't think it's going to work out in the favour of LGBTetc in the long term.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#283

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #181
corobo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not see why it is gross It's the whole bit about forgetting people are people. If you want robots go R&D some robots > Employees have more utility if they get an abortion Yea like that

Everyone likes to say that, and then goes out and buys things from the vendor selling to them at the lowest price. Societal benefits fall squarely on the government’s shoulders, and their shoulders alone. Admonishing and expecting businesses to not optimize within their boundary conditions is a waste of time.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#284

Post by Banana699 »

Dan_Sylveste wrote: post #282
Banana699 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Probably a reaction 'what they do in the bedroom' being made literally illegal for a long period of time. This can be used to justify anything. Muslims and Jews used to be persecuted in catholic spain for a very long time since the 1400s, should muslims make periodic month-long parades where they play the quran loudly and cosplay as 14th century muslim warriors ? should Spain be forced to host them ? "I was harmed i…

>This would make you more honest, and also open your eyes to some effects you're not currently seeing with the overly moralistic framework, such as that the "owning" might be overly broad and end up making people who previously had no problem with the group in question gradually resent it more and more as it intrude further into their life year after year. You're not going to find disagreement from me here, I think t…

>There seems to be a subgroup that enjoys showcasing what can fairly honestly (as in, not in a pearl-clutching kind of way) be described as deviant

Correct. Furthermore, Pride is optimized for this group, meaning that it's an inherently meaningless celebration that rewards novelty purely for novelty's sake. Since deviance is novel, that's the direction that pulls.

So this group, regardless of numbers, is dominant. If you attend pride parades, try talking about those views. See for yourself how native is deviance to the LGBT thing, the movement that doesn't like the words "respectable" and "normal" and views them as slurs.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#285

Post by maratc »

andsoitis wrote: post #269
maratc wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think women should have equal rights as men? What I think is irrelevant. The question why the US hasn't yet ratified the Equal Rights Amendment that would guarantee that "women have equal rights" is also irrelevant (hint: women opposed that). The relevant question is, whether a powerful state is right to impose its values (which it, undoubtedly, holds in high esteem) on other states.

> The relevant question is, whether a powerful state is right to impose its values (which it, undoubtedly, holds in high esteem) on other states. I thought we were talking about Amazon, not a state. But let's say we were talking about a state, I think the Universal Declaration of Human Rights can be the North Star that we hold states accountable to (incl. the United States of America). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U…

First, UAE hasn't signed that declaration. Do we hold UAE accountable to a declaration they never signed just because we've signed it and hold it a "North Star"?

Second, the Declaration has nothing on LGBT rights, and it's not by mistake, but rather by the agreement of the signing parties at the time.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#286

Post by maratc »

sweetheart wrote: post #251
maratc wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are huge differences between Amazon not selling porn due to local laws and Amazon restricting LGBTQ searches due to local laws. Except for the fact that you agree with one ('cos it's "a good thing") and disagree with the other ('cos it's "a bad thing"), what are these differences? > some people made the call to continue making a buck by empowering a homophobic and dangerous group. For an LGBT person, it's bet…

> Except for the fact that you agree with one ('cos it's "a good thing") and disagree with the other ('cos it's "a bad thing"), Well, no... I don't give a shit if Amazon sells porn. Whether or not they do doesn't really disproportionately harm a minority group. > what are these differences? One actively targets a minority group.

> Whether or not they do doesn't really disproportionately harm a minority group.

It does disproportionately harm a minority group of porn afficionados. If your point is that LGBT minority group has some rights that porn afficionados minority group does not have, you'd need to prove it.

> One actively targets a minority group.

The search results will equally be hidden from heterosexuals and homosexuals alike. It's not that Amazon is treating LGBT group in a different way — all the population is targeted the same.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#287

Post by q1w2 »

Dan_Sylveste wrote: post #281
q1w2 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens in people's bedrooms hasn't been illegal in the west for a long time - and even before was not often enforced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas I think that most people would say that 2003 is not 'a long time ago.'

It actually happened in 1998, and the courts correctly dismissed the case. This was more of a case of the district attorney trying to punish some people and digging up an old 1973 law to do it because they didn't have a case. Now that law is formally defunct, rather than just being forgotten.

...so yeah, that's not a good example of your argument.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#288

Post by staticman2 »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #252
staticman2 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Homophobia is the irrational fear of failure to maintain sexually reproductive replacement in society." No offense intended but this explanation reads like it was written by an alien who has never interacted with a human before. People become homophobic because at formative years they imitate and internalize homophobia from role models. Nobody is sitting around panicking about population levels.

And where do those role models get it from? You can't rebuke me with just "it's role models all the way down".

Culture- such as the culture of homophobia- takes on a life of it's own. It does not represent beliefs or fear it just is.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#289

Post by Dan_Sylveste »

q1w2 wrote: post #287
Dan_Sylveste wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas I think that most people would say that 2003 is not 'a long time ago.'

It actually happened in 1998, and the courts correctly dismissed the case. This was more of a case of the district attorney trying to punish some people and digging up an old 1973 law to do it because they didn't have a case. Now that law is formally defunct, rather than just being forgotten. ...so yeah, that's not a good example of your argument.

No, no, it's a good example. The law was on the books. Leaving enforcement up to the whims of a DA has a chilling effect.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#290

Post by Dan_Sylveste »

Banana699 wrote: post #284
Dan_Sylveste wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This would make you more honest, and also open your eyes to some effects you're not currently seeing with the overly moralistic framework, such as that the "owning" might be overly broad and end up making people who previously had no problem with the group in question gradually resent it more and more as it intrude further into their life year after year. You're not going to find disagreement from me here, I think t…

>There seems to be a subgroup that enjoys showcasing what can fairly honestly (as in, not in a pearl-clutching kind of way) be described as deviant Correct. Furthermore, Pride is optimized for this group, meaning that it's an inherently meaningless celebration that rewards novelty purely for novelty's sake. Since deviance is novel, that's the direction that pulls. So this group, regardless of numbers, is dominant. If…

That seems to be a feature of US pride parades, perhaps originating from the Folsom Street Fair, I remember reading about it somewhere. The EU ones - which are the ones I have personal experience of - don't have much of that sort of thing.
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